I thought I was good...
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Hello Clive,
I love what you did for PP.
If only we can be focus on why we bother to do this in PP, then and only then, we will find fullfilment in your activities.
I think it should not be charlie 13. I know this is sarcasm. It will only invite more sarcasm. It is also not appropriate to use clive 13 although you are the author/editor.
How about if we will call it PP 13. If we use PP then, others can edit what clive done until it will be perfect for all PP member to embrace. It could be PP member mantra, or the way of life of PP.
I will recommend this post to be the best ever post for the week, then for the month then, maybe for the year.
Cheers,
Charlie
PS Charlie
Ever done a data centre us ignorants consider that pretty complex maybe as complex as plumbing up a petro plant
Oscar
"simply the best coz PP says so"
Oh dear oh dear
Charlie this is not what planet are you from but planning planet
I am no good I am ignorant
cos I shout and scream and annoy people in my efforts to get people to listen to my plan
Im not a cymbol Im a drum set
However I have a little faith some charity and hopefully from time to time some love, the realtionship with this verse and planning however really eldudes me
Are you saying you are JC ?? surely not I thought you were JUST a planner but maybe JC was a planner he certainly took a seriously critical path but people still talk about his work and they listened so maybe he was the ultimate planner but I think not
OOh soooo sorry am I being childish is humour childish an interesting concept.
Star rating bo derick not the one Arther new but a crane in east london receives a 10
any way Charlie I will give you a 10 for making me scream with laughter at your posts.
Best regards
Oscar Wild
Hi Clive,
WOW that an achievement.
It practically dwraf my experience, so I dont want to say more.
I dont want to spoil your memories in PP.
In addition to what you been thru, mine is on a smaller scale. Im involved only is an 5 BIllION USD Light Rail Proposal. Also, I have Oil and Gas Experience, an experienced which Im not proud off, which I should not have got into in the first place.
But then, the oil and gas experience also help me understand the nature of the work that a purely building boys are not familiar. In some discussion with civil guys, it is intimidating to open up topics (Oil and Gas, LNG, Petrochemical and Industrial Construction) that scare them because of their ignorance.
For me the rating is nothing because I have seen a lot of people overate themselves to the point of becomming fantastic and humorous.
As a good sage said two thousand years ago "what knowledge I learn will come to an end ... Only three things will last >>>>, >>>>, & <<< and the greatest is LOVE".
For me whatever a person throw in PP but then done other than for the love of Planning and for the love of sharing, what that person said is nothing, "a clanging cymbal". It only serve that person sense of grandeur, pride, etc. that cause a lot of conflict in the forum.
But do it for the LOVE of planning or for the LOVE of sharing to others, then and only then you will find fullfilment in what your are doing here in PP.
You dont even have to think "I thought I was good ..." for SIMPLY YOU ARE THE BEST. PP will know.
Cheers, have a nice day
Charlie
James
Going home in a sulk? Cant take a joke?
Tut tut
Me? Two wheels, manic London Drivers, even more crazy bikers...yup that includes me
TTFN
Well Nigel, if you dont like whats on telly, then you can always press the Off-button.....so there! (all in the best possible taste, of course!).
I, for one, jus lurve these discussions of utter childish, playground toilet humour and double-entendre. I just dont get enuff silliness in my life.
Im going to go home: compartment number 13, here I come.
I refuse to get drawn into an on-going puerile discussion along these lines...expecially with southern jessies;-)
Think this thread should be closed!
eeehh by eck lad. Wheres me Ecky Thump. Well all ave a good ead slappin. All boys together now.......PUSH.
Not being the politically correct, sharing, caring type...how about a group slap up side the head? Especially for those attempting to extort vast amounts of money from forum members? I remember when £4.99 would buy you a new orse n cart, new ouse, three nights out, a good meal, four flagons of ale and still give you change! But you try telling youngsters today that...they wont believe you
(Apollogies to Monty Python)
You like a good mouthful also, whilst skipping during a group-hug? Thatll be door number 1....and we charge extra.
Cor! That was a mouthful!!! Make sure the twirly wirly is ironed hey! He! He!
Oooohh Julian...you would like us to skip with a group-hug! Ill ask my CEO if we can include that on the curriculum. Hold on just a moment, Ill open my mental compartment door number......265! A Yes, here we are! Halloooo....anybody in there?................................................................................................................................................................................Good news, Young Bean. We can Hop, Skip and Jump. Twirly-skirts are compulsory though. Here you go...you can borrow mine; Ive got plenty of them........................
Oops, sorry. That was door number 264.....my feminine side!
What is the latest exchange rate - Pounds to Rand? You could make some bucks there hey? I will skip the group hug though!
Shall we all have a group-hug?
Maybe we could start-up "Planners Annonymous"...for those whom are emotionally disturbed, suffer from delusions of grandeur or a sense of inadequacy.
"Come hither to Planning Planet, unburden yourself, allow yourself to be the real you. Reveal your hidden depths and talents without fear of mockful abuse. Ye shall not be judged but by only the Star Rating". Only £4.99 per session, with the first seesion free.
Rhetorical, sarcastic...ME.....nah!!
Hi there Nige
It was a valid point you brought up! I have been in this game for a little of 3.5 years and nearly everyday, I learn something new! As far as I am concerned, if can learn something new as often as possible, then I have achieved something great, that makes a good planner!
I am really enjoying this site, the guys out there have taught me a lot, that is right as rain in my books!
Cheers!
Really stirred something up here, didnt I?!
It was meant as a semi-sarcastic post/rhetorical question. I was surprised though that so many planners thoought that they were excellent at everything.
Even the most self-centred must realise that there are some things that they do not know. Ask a, very good, civils planner how he would build and oil-rig or, someone like me, an old git that has been around a while but specialised in M&E, how they would work out an IT project and whilst we would both have an idea we would not be competent.
I can admit that, most people can, so why the self-delusion? Or are they trying to project a certain image to their peers? If I dont know something, hands-up "I dont know".
Am I that different? Or have I the ability to realise my own short-comings, lack of knowledge and admit it.
I would have much more confidence in someone that did not fill it in at all.
Imagine a prospective employer looking at this site - as I know some do. If they looked at the rating, who do you think they would really go for?
Having had that little rant, Ill shut up and try and think of a less contentious post for the future :-}
Cheers
Nige
James
Refering to the last line in your statement about gettting a new job...you demonstrated a good sence of honesty there, so I am sure you will come right! He! He!
Hi Nigel,
What you perceive in planning planet refering to your post #1 is similar to the planet earth. There is not much difference. I encountered a lot of this kind of person. Some even got senior position but cannot differentiat an activity or a milestone (the senior planner think that milestone got duration, so funny).
The basic in PP is freedom, even to the extent that others becomes gullible.
The best indicator is how a particular PP member post in the forum. For he/she could be the best that he/she think. But.. But read his/her post. If it sound childish or there is no planning thoughts or if that someone deginerate and got emotional to the point of acting immature or foolishly, then, i believe the majority of PP members knows how to evaluate such personality.
Cheers,
Charlie
Nigel,
I will agree with you on most points. In Para 5, however, we have to be a bit careful with regard to our perceptions. Yes, a £2.5Billion over-run, in its absolute value sounds very high, but still it’s only 10%. However such inaccuracies are related to the levels of uncertainty, based on the total cost value and duration of the project (I’m sure that there’s a statistical equation somewhere), so a 10% error is just that: 10%. One would, I suspect, expect a £2K, 1-week project to have substantially less error, owing to the fact that its absolute value is small and duration is short. Whether one works on proportion or absolute values is down to the individual, but I must admit that it can be very difficult to interweave such opposing philosophies. A classic example is my bathroom refurbishment: It hasn’t progressed, even though I can afford anything I want to: but because I’m a stingy-git, I want the lowest possible cost relative to the functional requirements, so we spend too much time faffing-around with indecision in order to save £50 quid here and there. Ok, so I squeeze the budget to its minimum, and it’s not actually costing me more by delaying the refurbishment (unless you account for the additional running-around to different shops), but relative to the total cost, saving £400 is less than 10%.......but I’m certainly not enticed to spend extra money just because there’s a 10% price-reduction (which logically contradicts my other philosophy). Tis always a balance between programme and cost – and the principle will apply to any size of project.
Back to being a good planner: Proud to be associated with a major engineering project……hmmm!!!!; even though it might have been an abject failure in terms of cost and programme adherence. Problem there is when looking for a new job. One can only hope that the interviewer hasn’t heard of the project :-)
Cheers.
James.
James
I dont think it is a case of how good we think a planner is, but how good they think they are. Anyone can tick all the stars but it doesnt mean they are any good. I intended the original to be a semi-sarcastic comment but think that the rating becomes meaningless if everyone says they are brilliant.
Regarding you comments about how good a plan is, tricky one. We have all probably flagged up to management that a project will be in trouble unless x, y, z. I think the "good" planners are the ones that can effectively communicate that idea and get management to act upon it.
We can all say, and some always do, this is crap, its not going to work. Surely the good planners are the ones that then come up with a solution or two and a methodology for implementing them.
If a project comes in on time and budget, the planner is either excellent, lying or not that good. Why didnt it come in under budget and before time? Would that be a better planner?
Within 10% - fair enough, but on a 17 year $25billion job that is an awfully big over-run and over-spend! On a £2000 weeks project, its ok.
The best that can be done should be the criteria. Bearing in mind the circumstances, conditions and so on. And the best means of judging that? Would you be proud to put on your CV that I built that/worked on that/whatever. If you can say Yes, then thats a good plan.
An interesting thought: By what criteria should we judge how good a planner is? Having been involved in lots of stuff for lots of time doesn’t mean that we’re any good at it. Take driving a car for example: how many Old Fogies have been driving for 60 years…and are still a danger to everyone else.
I’d imagine that it’s a very difficult thing to define. For instance, if our programme forecasts a conflict a year into the future, and that conflict comes to fruition, then you could say that was brilliant planning from one perspective. On the flip-side you could also say that one obviously didn’t do a very good job of communicating this conflict and persuading the Management that they’d better do something about it. However, there is perhaps, in your company, a level of management apathy toward taking seriously any planning advice, especially if it conflicts with their own gut-feel viewpoint.
Does anyone have a rule-of-thumb: say, if your project comes to within plus/minus 10% of the time & cost that was projected at the outset, then that would be excellent/good/crap planning. Obviously one needs to account for a continually evolving situation (especially in Design Planning)……therefore at some point it’s a case of “all-bets-are-off” and we start again. We all appreciate that, technically, if the scope changes then we should re-baseline, and all previous costs/duration forecasts become null-and-void…..but do you know of any rule-of-thumb that determines at what point you say enough-is-enough, shout “foul” and strongly suggest a re-baseline?
Experiences please….
James.
Hi Guys,
I think Clive got it right in his post #3, thats why I didnt bother filling in any ratings. Like Julian said, if you can help somebody you do it, and your "star rating" is a matter of indifference.
Chris Oggham
Well, here is a churp from a new comer. This is a brilliant web site that in a short span of time has taught me some useful things. Frankly, I dont care about some other blokes ratings. If any of these okes can help me and maybe I can help them...by all means!!!
Thanks to everyone for a cool web site!!!!
Cheers!
Although my membership only shews from May 2006, Ive been using Planning Planet for many years, and I just didnt bother to fill the whole thing. I find the whole thing kinda tedious, and just a bit pointless. The only part of planning I havent been involved in is forensic and I have no intention to either.
Ive always worked in multi-disciplines, I dont see the problem
I also noticed this ...