Now I am in a strange suitation and anybody can help me regarding this.
I am a P6 administrator and now I have a project which is having different Price unit per role (USD & JPY). And also each role is having different rates in 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2014. How can I set the rates for each role. Our cost calculation is based on role rates.
First, Microsoft has done badly when it comes to user requirements for the past years. It seems that they dont understand project management at all.
For example, back then, MSP activities couldnt have more than 1 link between them. Primavera can. With that single (among many) limitation, serious project management professionals like myself were totally bewildered and have removed MSP from our world.
Now in this forum, Im looking at whetting my appetite for more power from Primavera... and you mention MSP. Im flying from P5 to P6 here and you just caused me to crash land.
The direction of my company will be dictated by our clients - as they pay the bills.
We just need to get into a position to be able to offer P Enterprise to our clients when that time arrives.
I understand the some of those Major players who went P3/e 5.0 a few years ago have all reverted to standalone P3/e 5.0 not untilising the enterprise functionality at all. At the end of each month each Project posts a Dashboard style report to the management.
I feel I have a long journey ahead to get my report completed by mid november
As the originator of the question - I must say I am a little disappointed with the tone of some of the postings.
As a company who is looking at migrating from P3 to P?? Enterprise. I fear that instead of looking forward to the challenges and potential benfits ahead. I will come to the same conclusion as my previous chairman. If it aint broke dont try to fix it. Long live 3.1.
If Primavera wants to promote and get companies to use it new packages, they should offer to pay for the training of my 80 planners we have across the world and the additional servers we need in each region and additional IT staff to maintain the Oracle databases. What does this increase in our cost of doing business get us. All Primavera offer is free upgrades on licences - that just does not cut it.
My point is that easy to use software like MSP created a lot of "Cowboy" Planner in the project management world.
The one without understand CPM, without understand EVMS and created a schedule in MSP or Excel and call it a project plan.
James I am not refering to you but hornestly I came across too many of these planner in organisation and they claim to be a PM or planner.
Either it is P3, P3e, P5 or P6, is the way to go and my view is MSP is not a planning software to plan a major infrastructure project. In that aspects, no. of user do not count whether the software can do the job or not. MSP, and Excel is a common planning tool, but only for the non professional.(That’s my view) That’s why microsoft are not comptite in that space rather the home user, single project who can only affort to spend $200 to complete a $1000 job. ^^
MSP does it nicely because there will be no claims, no progress update, no EV analysis, no what-if, no risk management.
kelly, as I have now idea with the new products from primavera P5, P6, do you mean that we can access primavera as a web application ( AJAX,JAVA), is it compatible with other platform then windows (linux in particular, as P3 still cant be loaded by Wine)
I think it will be a real revolution, just imagine accessing you schedule from home using PS3 !!!
Going home so soon? It must be that fabulous project management software lets you finish so early.
The point you make about usability I agree with in one context. Changing from that old warhorse P3 3.1 to the new product is daunting. The "culture" of the two products is SO different - and yet both boxes say "Primavera".
The windows client for "Primavera 5" is very much the same as release 4,3, and 2.
I accept that the web based clients - which are improving in leaps and bounds - are changing dramatically from one release to another. Primavera have found it impossible to double functionality every release and keep the old navigation. But this is, I feel, the nature of the beast.
The beast in question is not Primavera, but web based applications in general.
The technology is new, changing rapidly, and without years of user-history behind it I think it unlikely that any software developer could guess how best to configure these applications without changing it from one release to another .
What IS important is that if you have any specific issues with usability - you tell Primavera.
I guess that you speak from hard-earned experience. I wont even begin to debate the "integration" issues, as Im not involved at that level. However, in terms of, for want of a better word, "usability" Primavera doesnt seem to be doing anyone any favours. When youre using what is essentially the same software, the operator doesnt want to be forced to un-learn everything that hes spent so much time getting-to-know in the first place. First-and-foremost, the software is to serve the operator and make life easier for them...not vice versa. It seems, though, that Primavera ponces-about with virtually everything, every time, so much that their "new release" becomes a totally new beast.
I need to return the thread back to my earlier posting. I am afraid that Mario inadvertently pushed one of my ‘hot buttons’ in his reply and my reply was more vehement than warranted. I apologize to him if I caused him any distress.
Mario conveyed to me that he was concerned about violating the PP policy on advertising and that was part of the reason for his indirect approach to the issue. In addition Mario sells a service as well as a product. Integrating P6 into a large organization where most everyone is connected via an integrated project management system is a daunting task, one that justly requires many hours of expert help. He certainly cannot be expected to just give away this knowledge for free.
But that was not my issue. I am objecting to the Primavera Corporate Marketing Strategy that says, “Don’t try to ask about the particulars of our product (even including the name of the product,) just trust us to tell you what you need.” No product comparisons, no discussion of prices, just trust that the person you are talking with has your best interest at heart. I don’t buy that.
I especially don’t ‘buy that’ when it is clear that Primavera is completely enamored by the size of the IT world and has forgotten its construction roots. Most construction companies do not need a ‘top-down’ revamping and to hook everyone into a mammoth data server with an information sharing system connecting literally everyone in the company together. If the Scheduler wants to talk with Accounting, John can lean back in his chair and have a chat with Andrea.
Most construction companies want to buy a couple of licenses of scheduling software and they don’t need the hocus-pocus that Primavera has so cleverly crafted. They want it to be easy to install and maintain and they want to know the specs and price. Most of all, they want the software to have a name so that they are not walking around acting like a bunch of Wizards in Harry Potter who fear “The Man Who Must Not Be Named.”
We Planners and Schedulers in PP need to name things and talk about them. We need to tell others what we know and help to dispel rumors. I am not waiting for companies like Primavera to tell me that they are skipping their first yearly release in memory – that is something that we planners do for each other. We may get it wrong sometimes, but then I hope that one of us will catch and correct the mistakes along the way. Mario, once again I am sorry for getting mad at you for just doing your job.
I am one of those primavera reps! And yes, Microsoft project is my favourite software package. If it worked, I would be out of a job. I hate to imagine I represented a rival spreadsheet package to excell. Fortunately most of my clients (actually its nearly all my clients) understand that a single user, no database system like MSP is simply (!?) the wrong technology.
And you wonder why Microsoft Project does so well in the market-place!!!!
Lets face it guys - including all you Primavera Reps: Primavera is shooting itself in the foot with all these upgrades, new releases, non-compatibilities, new operating characteristics, formats, confusions etc.etc.
From what Ive read so far on Planning Planet (which is an excellent forum) I would be extremely doubtful whether the investment in Primavera systems would prove value-for-money. The whole lot just seems far too disjointed. OK, MSP might be somewhat tainted by the "Microsoft" connection, but what you get seems to be better defined, straight-forward to use, a lot more user-friendly, surprisingly flexible - and 1/10th of the price.
Forgive me for saying this, but Primavera seems to be akin to a car manufacturer that builds a new and different car every year. Some components are inter-changeable, but you have to almost re-learn to drive every time. Ok it may go a bit faster and may be a bit more reliable, but do you want to pay ten-times the price?
Just to expand slightly on my #4, because I cant remember the exact timing and I dont have time to try and check the history. And I wasnt disagreeing with Mario.
When the name myPrimavera was first used it may well have referred to a "single product" for a while. (As did the earlier name "Primavision".) But its now correct to say (as Mario did) that there is no longer a "product" of that name. It is used (where it helps simplify documentation or discussion) as a generic description for the browser interface.
Its actually pretty simple. But there is understandable confusion when there is a "re-branding" such as happened at the time of the release of Version 5.0. Along with more licensing options. And thats why Marios suggestion is good advice, even if youre a cynic about some things. Primavera Representatives should be up-to-date with terminology, licensing/pricing options, and possible release dates. But let me try and summarise . . .
1. "Primavera 5.0" has unfortunately (IMO) given rise to the acronym "P5", which to me implies a single product. But it actually means Version 5.0 of all of the possible software, as will Primavera 6 (if thats how it is branded) mean the next Version 6.0.
2. Within "Primavera 5" are a number of customised solutions, such as "Primavera Engineering and Construction", and Primavera Power, Energy and Process".
3. Within each solution, there are a number of potential "roles". And for each role there is software. All (except the "Contractor" role, by design) as part of an integrated solution/database. And within that software there are ultimately "products/programs". For example, such as the main Windows client program "Project Management".
4. myPrimavera was never a "product", except in its original form (with a different name), when there were no alternative browser-based options. But the name is still used to describe the overall browser-based interface and capabilities. However, within myPrimavera there are a number of "role" possibilities, depending on what functionality is required.
5. Version 6.0 will not be totally browser-based. It will again consist of both Windows- and browser-based software options. But anyone who has followed the progress of what is now Version 5.0, from its first release in 1999, will have noticed that as bandwidth has becomes more available, and as the Primavera software has been further developed, there has been an increasing focus on the browser GUI. (Version 1.0 had only Windows apps and a Java timesheet program.) And there will come a time (Version 7.0? Version 8.0?) when it will be totally browser-based.
6. So there is not a "web version" or a "Windows version". In fact in 5.0 you have to have at least one licence that includes the main Windows-based client program, because thats where the administrative functions are currently handled. Rather, its role-based software as Ive described. And what interface you use (either or both) will depend on your role and requirements. For example, part of myPrimavera is delivered with the Planner/Scheduler role, along with Windows clients. But if such a user has no need to access data from a remote site, then that software will probably not be used.
Lots to think about? Exactly. And in a good sense. Thats why Marios suggestion is a good one.
Let me see if I have this straight. Don’t trust the Scheduler guy because he told you what Primavera was afraid to tell you. Trust your local Primavera salesman because they would never lie or try to hide a company embarrassment.
Oh – I love this one… the Scheduler guy must be wrong because he used a product name that ‘does not exist’ anymore (except for the fact that we are still selling the product, we just don’t call it by any name anymore.) We call all of the products that we sell by our company name now, except for Contractor, SureTrack, Claim Digger, Evolve, and a dozen other names that I can’t keep track of. THOSE software products got names, just not the other 6 pieces of software that we hide the names.
Is it any wonder that people worry when they think about putting down $4000 a unit? What am I getting myself into they must ask?
I stand by every word. MSP does not "work" for my clients. I am VERY grateful that the worlds largest software company has failed to produce a product that competes with me in that area.
Yes, there are more MSP users than all other PM system users put together. Great. Enough of them will be so dissatisfied that Primavera/me will convert them and provide my company with all the work we need.
My companys developer status with Microsoft means that I have the whole "Enterprise" suite from Microsoft. And very clever it is too. It may provide ferocious competition to Primavera in the "portfolio" maketplace (e.g. 5000 x 10 activity projects) But in my "projects" marketplace (e.g. 10 x 5000 activity projects) that MUST integrate with SAP, Maximo etc. Primavera is so far ahead I can hardly see Microsofts lights in the mirror.
This is beginning to sound like an advert, so I should stop. Suffice it to say that every time I test a new release of MSP, I breath a sigh of relief.
Spider Project is most functional and powerful professional project management software.
The first SP version was launched in 1993 and since then it has been constantly improved. Today is used in 34 countries though most Spider Project customers are in Russia. Spider Project offers numerous unique functional features and is the only PM software that optimizes resource, cost, and material constrained schedules and budgets for projects and portfolios.
The unique features of Spider Project include Quantity Based Scheduling, Conditional Scheduling, Skill Scheduling, Optimal Resource, Cost and Material Leveling, Resource Critical Path Calculation, Cash and Material Flows Calculation and Management, Trend Analysis, Advanced Risk Simulation and Analysis, Calculation of Success Probability Trends, Calculation and Management of required Project Time and Cost Buffers, Application of Corporate Norms, Management of many Parallel Budgets, Multiple WBS and many others.
Spider Project was and is used for management of many large scale programs in Russia, including $51bln construction program for 2014 Winter Olympic Games preparation.
The application areas where Spider Project is successfully used include Aerospace, Banking, Construction, Defense, Energy, Engineering, Infrastructure, Manufacturing, Metallurgy, Mining, Oil & Gas, Railways, Retail, Shipbuilding, Software Development, Telecommunications, Utilities, etc.
P6-Auditor - Display information from Primavera P6 audit tables in a user-friendly format
Unifier-Archiver - Extract and archive important documents and attachments from Primavera Unifier
Unifier-Loader - Load data into and out of Unifier via Excel
PCM-Loader - Import data into Primavera Contract Management with flexible and secure, template-driven Excel spreadsheets
PCM-Archiver - Extract and archive important documents and attachments from Primavera Contract Management
PCM-Unifier Migrator - Automatically transfer live and historical data from Primavera Contract Management to Primavera Unifier with ease
Create Radically Better Construction Schedules with ALICE Technologies
Use the power of AI to create construction schedules that reduce risk while cutting costs and build time. With ALICE, develop the ideal schedule during preconstruction -- or recover projects that are off schedule and over budget.
Now I am in a strange suitation and anybody can help me regarding this.
I am a P6 administrator and now I have a project which is having different Price unit per role (USD & JPY). And also each role is having different rates in 2011, 2012, 2013 & 2014. How can I set the rates for each role. Our cost calculation is based on role rates.
Any suggesstion…., please
Hi James,
Let me beat you to a pulp :)
First, Microsoft has done badly when it comes to user requirements for the past years. It seems that they dont understand project management at all.
For example, back then, MSP activities couldnt have more than 1 link between them. Primavera can. With that single (among many) limitation, serious project management professionals like myself were totally bewildered and have removed MSP from our world.
Now in this forum, Im looking at whetting my appetite for more power from Primavera... and you mention MSP. Im flying from P5 to P6 here and you just caused me to crash land.
Is that enough beating?
Dont take offense, buddy. Have a great day.
Mario
thanks for the advice.
The direction of my company will be dictated by our clients - as they pay the bills.
We just need to get into a position to be able to offer P Enterprise to our clients when that time arrives.
I understand the some of those Major players who went P3/e 5.0 a few years ago have all reverted to standalone P3/e 5.0 not untilising the enterprise functionality at all. At the end of each month each Project posts a Dashboard style report to the management.
I feel I have a long journey ahead to get my report completed by mid november
As the originator of the question - I must say I am a little disappointed with the tone of some of the postings.
As a company who is looking at migrating from P3 to P?? Enterprise. I fear that instead of looking forward to the challenges and potential benfits ahead. I will come to the same conclusion as my previous chairman. If it aint broke dont try to fix it. Long live 3.1.
If Primavera wants to promote and get companies to use it new packages, they should offer to pay for the training of my 80 planners we have across the world and the additional servers we need in each region and additional IT staff to maintain the Oracle databases. What does this increase in our cost of doing business get us. All Primavera offer is free upgrades on licences - that just does not cut it.
how a good question turned to be a flamewar !!!!
regards
mimoune
Dear All,
My point is that easy to use software like MSP created a lot of "Cowboy" Planner in the project management world.
The one without understand CPM, without understand EVMS and created a schedule in MSP or Excel and call it a project plan.
James I am not refering to you but hornestly I came across too many of these planner in organisation and they claim to be a PM or planner.
Either it is P3, P3e, P5 or P6, is the way to go and my view is MSP is not a planning software to plan a major infrastructure project. In that aspects, no. of user do not count whether the software can do the job or not. MSP, and Excel is a common planning tool, but only for the non professional.(That’s my view) That’s why microsoft are not comptite in that space rather the home user, single project who can only affort to spend $200 to complete a $1000 job. ^^
MSP does it nicely because there will be no claims, no progress update, no EV analysis, no what-if, no risk management.
Cheers
Alex
David,
Just came back again......the software couldn’t read my mind and automatically enable the "out-of-office", so I’ve just had to log-on again.
On my hols now.
Cheers.
James.
hi all
first happy AID EL FITER for all
kelly, as I have now idea with the new products from primavera P5, P6, do you mean that we can access primavera as a web application ( AJAX,JAVA), is it compatible with other platform then windows (linux in particular, as P3 still cant be loaded by Wine)
I think it will be a real revolution, just imagine accessing you schedule from home using PS3 !!!
regards
mimoune
James,
Going home so soon? It must be that fabulous project management software lets you finish so early.
The point you make about usability I agree with in one context. Changing from that old warhorse P3 3.1 to the new product is daunting. The "culture" of the two products is SO different - and yet both boxes say "Primavera".
The windows client for "Primavera 5" is very much the same as release 4,3, and 2.
I accept that the web based clients - which are improving in leaps and bounds - are changing dramatically from one release to another. Primavera have found it impossible to double functionality every release and keep the old navigation. But this is, I feel, the nature of the beast.
The beast in question is not Primavera, but web based applications in general.
The technology is new, changing rapidly, and without years of user-history behind it I think it unlikely that any software developer could guess how best to configure these applications without changing it from one release to another .
What IS important is that if you have any specific issues with usability - you tell Primavera.
Hi David,
I guess that you speak from hard-earned experience. I wont even begin to debate the "integration" issues, as Im not involved at that level. However, in terms of, for want of a better word, "usability" Primavera doesnt seem to be doing anyone any favours. When youre using what is essentially the same software, the operator doesnt want to be forced to un-learn everything that hes spent so much time getting-to-know in the first place. First-and-foremost, the software is to serve the operator and make life easier for them...not vice versa. It seems, though, that Primavera ponces-about with virtually everything, every time, so much that their "new release" becomes a totally new beast.
Anyway, Im going home now.
James.
I need to return the thread back to my earlier posting. I am afraid that Mario inadvertently pushed one of my ‘hot buttons’ in his reply and my reply was more vehement than warranted. I apologize to him if I caused him any distress.
Mario conveyed to me that he was concerned about violating the PP policy on advertising and that was part of the reason for his indirect approach to the issue. In addition Mario sells a service as well as a product. Integrating P6 into a large organization where most everyone is connected via an integrated project management system is a daunting task, one that justly requires many hours of expert help. He certainly cannot be expected to just give away this knowledge for free.
But that was not my issue. I am objecting to the Primavera Corporate Marketing Strategy that says, “Don’t try to ask about the particulars of our product (even including the name of the product,) just trust us to tell you what you need.” No product comparisons, no discussion of prices, just trust that the person you are talking with has your best interest at heart. I don’t buy that.
I especially don’t ‘buy that’ when it is clear that Primavera is completely enamored by the size of the IT world and has forgotten its construction roots. Most construction companies do not need a ‘top-down’ revamping and to hook everyone into a mammoth data server with an information sharing system connecting literally everyone in the company together. If the Scheduler wants to talk with Accounting, John can lean back in his chair and have a chat with Andrea.
Most construction companies want to buy a couple of licenses of scheduling software and they don’t need the hocus-pocus that Primavera has so cleverly crafted. They want it to be easy to install and maintain and they want to know the specs and price. Most of all, they want the software to have a name so that they are not walking around acting like a bunch of Wizards in Harry Potter who fear “The Man Who Must Not Be Named.”
We Planners and Schedulers in PP need to name things and talk about them. We need to tell others what we know and help to dispel rumors. I am not waiting for companies like Primavera to tell me that they are skipping their first yearly release in memory – that is something that we planners do for each other. We may get it wrong sometimes, but then I hope that one of us will catch and correct the mistakes along the way. Mario, once again I am sorry for getting mad at you for just doing your job.
Hi David,
Please could you clarify what you said. I couldnt quite determine whether there was a level of irony.
James :-)
I am one of those primavera reps! And yes, Microsoft project is my favourite software package. If it worked, I would be out of a job. I hate to imagine I represented a rival spreadsheet package to excell. Fortunately most of my clients (actually its nearly all my clients) understand that a single user, no database system like MSP is simply (!?) the wrong technology.
And you wonder why Microsoft Project does so well in the market-place!!!!
Lets face it guys - including all you Primavera Reps: Primavera is shooting itself in the foot with all these upgrades, new releases, non-compatibilities, new operating characteristics, formats, confusions etc.etc.
From what Ive read so far on Planning Planet (which is an excellent forum) I would be extremely doubtful whether the investment in Primavera systems would prove value-for-money. The whole lot just seems far too disjointed. OK, MSP might be somewhat tainted by the "Microsoft" connection, but what you get seems to be better defined, straight-forward to use, a lot more user-friendly, surprisingly flexible - and 1/10th of the price.
Forgive me for saying this, but Primavera seems to be akin to a car manufacturer that builds a new and different car every year. Some components are inter-changeable, but you have to almost re-learn to drive every time. Ok it may go a bit faster and may be a bit more reliable, but do you want to pay ten-times the price?
Feel free to beat me into a pulp.
James.
Just to expand slightly on my #4, because I cant remember the exact timing and I dont have time to try and check the history. And I wasnt disagreeing with Mario.
When the name myPrimavera was first used it may well have referred to a "single product" for a while. (As did the earlier name "Primavision".) But its now correct to say (as Mario did) that there is no longer a "product" of that name. It is used (where it helps simplify documentation or discussion) as a generic description for the browser interface.
Its actually pretty simple. But there is understandable confusion when there is a "re-branding" such as happened at the time of the release of Version 5.0. Along with more licensing options. And thats why Marios suggestion is good advice, even if youre a cynic about some things. Primavera Representatives should be up-to-date with terminology, licensing/pricing options, and possible release dates. But let me try and summarise . . .
1. "Primavera 5.0" has unfortunately (IMO) given rise to the acronym "P5", which to me implies a single product. But it actually means Version 5.0 of all of the possible software, as will Primavera 6 (if thats how it is branded) mean the next Version 6.0.
2. Within "Primavera 5" are a number of customised solutions, such as "Primavera Engineering and Construction", and Primavera Power, Energy and Process".
3. Within each solution, there are a number of potential "roles". And for each role there is software. All (except the "Contractor" role, by design) as part of an integrated solution/database. And within that software there are ultimately "products/programs". For example, such as the main Windows client program "Project Management".
4. myPrimavera was never a "product", except in its original form (with a different name), when there were no alternative browser-based options. But the name is still used to describe the overall browser-based interface and capabilities. However, within myPrimavera there are a number of "role" possibilities, depending on what functionality is required.
5. Version 6.0 will not be totally browser-based. It will again consist of both Windows- and browser-based software options. But anyone who has followed the progress of what is now Version 5.0, from its first release in 1999, will have noticed that as bandwidth has becomes more available, and as the Primavera software has been further developed, there has been an increasing focus on the browser GUI. (Version 1.0 had only Windows apps and a Java timesheet program.) And there will come a time (Version 7.0? Version 8.0?) when it will be totally browser-based.
6. So there is not a "web version" or a "Windows version". In fact in 5.0 you have to have at least one licence that includes the main Windows-based client program, because thats where the administrative functions are currently handled. Rather, its role-based software as Ive described. And what interface you use (either or both) will depend on your role and requirements. For example, part of myPrimavera is delivered with the Planner/Scheduler role, along with Windows clients. But if such a user has no need to access data from a remote site, then that software will probably not be used.
Lots to think about? Exactly. And in a good sense. Thats why Marios suggestion is a good one.
Let me see if I have this straight. Don’t trust the Scheduler guy because he told you what Primavera was afraid to tell you. Trust your local Primavera salesman because they would never lie or try to hide a company embarrassment.
Oh – I love this one… the Scheduler guy must be wrong because he used a product name that ‘does not exist’ anymore (except for the fact that we are still selling the product, we just don’t call it by any name anymore.) We call all of the products that we sell by our company name now, except for Contractor, SureTrack, Claim Digger, Evolve, and a dozen other names that I can’t keep track of. THOSE software products got names, just not the other 6 pieces of software that we hide the names.
Is it any wonder that people worry when they think about putting down $4000 a unit? What am I getting myself into they must ask?
I just found out that the release of P6 will now be delayed until June 2007. No new releases this year.
“My Primavera” is the web-based version of P5. I believe that the normal version will still be available in P6.
Many thanks Marcio
My next question is what is My Primavera
Hello Skye,
P6 will be web based, like my primavera - this is the main diference.
Regards.
Marcio Eduardo.
James,
Irony? Me?
I stand by every word. MSP does not "work" for my clients. I am VERY grateful that the worlds largest software company has failed to produce a product that competes with me in that area.
Yes, there are more MSP users than all other PM system users put together. Great. Enough of them will be so dissatisfied that Primavera/me will convert them and provide my company with all the work we need.
My companys developer status with Microsoft means that I have the whole "Enterprise" suite from Microsoft. And very clever it is too. It may provide ferocious competition to Primavera in the "portfolio" maketplace (e.g. 5000 x 10 activity projects) But in my "projects" marketplace (e.g. 10 x 5000 activity projects) that MUST integrate with SAP, Maximo etc. Primavera is so far ahead I can hardly see Microsofts lights in the mirror.
This is beginning to sound like an advert, so I should stop. Suffice it to say that every time I test a new release of MSP, I breath a sigh of relief.