Scheduling Civil Engg For Industrial (plant ) Pr

I have to apologise I sent the previous reply in the wrong section.



Again my apologise for the ones not interested in this issue.



Luca

[post was in the wrong thread - Luca has reposted in the correct thread...]

I just suggest You to have talk with the civil department manager or the civil engineers involved in the project, as well as with the procurement people. They will give You a lot of important informations. Try also to ask for previous similar projects done by Your company. I am sure they have some records.



For any other query, no problem. You can also write directly to me.



You can find some good information about bidding phase on this book available free on internet.

Construction Management



It is real good.

You will not find help for the specific problem of Your plant, but You can find some explanation.

So I have to go on with general statement, for different reason.

Site preparation, how extent is the site, the entity of cut and fill? Have You to make some demolish? If You have a filling is a sand-filling?

In any case before you design it and then realize (SITE PREPARATION DESIGN, then SITE PREPARATION). In site preparation design You can have different deliverable to produce in function of the kind of site preparation. Minimum plan, section, then a method statement.

And so on.

For example the pipe-rack is 10, 20 meter long? How many pipes must support, of which entity? Before to start the pipe-rack design You need to have from the piping department the loads, so it could necessary to put a milestone loads on pipe rack issue (coming from a piping stress analysis).

As for the design of the equipment foundation You need the load charts from the vendor. As the civil is the first work to be performed on site is almost the last one to be designed. As to perform it You need a lot of information from the vendor. The equipment layout, height (for wind and seismic if the case), and load charts.

So in the procurement schedule, or at least in Your civil one, should be a milestone “issue vendor documentations”, These docs are useful not only to the civil design department, but also to the piping one, as they need to perform their piping layout and isometrics, for the tie-in to the equipment, as well as for the electrical, for the required power and connection point, so the can finalise the required power required and single line diagram, …

The road I suppose is internal one, but again how long, which type …



I think some of these info can be found in the contract, as Your company will have a draft of contract with special clauses, technical specification for equipment, civil works, etc …



So You see is pretty impossible go on the detail You want with out having seen the drawings. Also ask to the procurement the technical characteristics of the equipment, they will purchase, a contacted vendor in bid stage, always will supply the main contractor with a summary table of the equipment they will intend to delivery.



Again look to the company record of similar plants done, and bring from there the info.



I am sorry not be able to be more specific, but giving You some numbers it would be just the best blind guess.



In any planning phase is important to have some dwgs to work with, just to have an idea of the extension of Your SOW. In the case You do not have them, the company record on similar projects (ethylene plant of similar capacity) become vital!



Regards

Luca

Is pretty difficult to estimate the duration or better the weight (man-hours) as the info You give are too generic.

It could be from 1000 to 50000 and so on.

Is one or more building? How many store? In concrete or steel structure. In seismic area or not? Which design tools are Your company using? I mean are You using an integrated 3D model? integrated between Fem and generation of the main deliverables? or the civil design department after issue the calculation report/s will prepare, let say in autoCad, all the relevant deliverables?

I will explain the reason. In an integrated 3D model You spend more hours in the model development, but after just few hours to adjust all the deliverables. In the other case You can go faster in the "design" of the structure, but much more slow in the deliverables preparation.



Let approach the problem in different way.

Your company has experience in building construction? As I understood is a building contract.

If so let:

1 - look in their record of built one, for a building similar to Your;

2a - extract all the info You need. In first I could think to the cost or better man-hours for the engineering, if You have already done engineering. If You have just the cost it must be actualised, as the construction (or design) was performed some years ago. You need to look for economical statistical index in Your country.

2b - Or if not, the drawings and with them go to the chief of the civil department asking his advice on the time required to prepare them. With some adjustment as Your SOW will be for sure different.

3a - So now You have the cost and split it in the breakdown You give. You can also assume a average design cost per hour and convert all in hours, that should be much better.

3b - You have the man-hous, that You need to split in the breakdown.



In any case remind we are just planner, always we need to have meeting with the involved key person, in this case at least the chief of civil department, the costing engineer and the PM. Better if also the contractual manager will be involved.



I am sorry I can not be more specific, but the input not allow more detail.

In any case I think we move a little bit forward.



PS If You want we can proceed with the discussion by email

without make a long history in the forum, as is becoming to specific issue and may be not all are any more interested.

Sorry reading after the repliesy I loose the mean of Your problem.



You are in proposal stage, so in bidding.

At which level You have to prepare the schedule?

I do not think to deliverables level!

Usually in bid stage You prepare a level 3 shedule to develop a full level 5/6 after one month from the Kick off meeting.



In any case Your Company should have e database of previous project from where to "bring" important informations, as time, effort spent for them. Then by similarity You built up Your high level schedule.



While if You have to produce a schedule up to the deliverable level at this stage ok.

Put in mind, some preliminary activity are necessary, like geotechincal investigation, topographical report, site visit, etc...

Then when You start to "produce" the deliverables in general for:

- concrete structure the sequence could be:

* claculation report

* formwork

* reinforcement

* bar list

- steel structure the seuqnce could be:

* claculation report

* plan, section drawing

* detail drawings

(the work shop must be done by the work-shop and

approved by the Client, so should be in Your list).

Some overlap are possible.



To quantify the effort it depend really from the "size" of what You are going to "built".

The effort to design the sleepers in a pipe way is different from the one for a compressor foundation. All are concrete foundation but ...



The procurement department can help You, as to prepare their estimate for sure they have contacted some vendor, obtaining update price and some basic technical charct. of the equipment, from where You can start to work on (per similarity with previous projects, could be a way).



Luca



PS no basic design is available? Is Your SOW (Scope Of Works) or You are a EPC contractor?

Dear Anvay,

please bear in mind that to do engineering design one needs information from other,i.e, soil investigation, equipment size and load for foundation, etc. The product of the engineering design project are mainly drawings, specs, sketches and reports (deliverables). To do a scheduling for civil engg, 1st. you need to list down the deliverables, then work-out the activities needed to achieve those delivrables. Very often you need to prolong your design time just to wait for the information from others, i.e, vendors,etc before completion of the design. Also, you need to define the milestones for each step of the design, i.e. issue for internal review, client’s review, and several other issues before issue for construction.

I suggest to develop a document register, in excel or access, where You will list all Your deliverables, with the relative weight (manhours, usually).

In the main time a Progress measurement procedure must be developed, and agreed with the Client, as it is the base for the payment. It will not cover just the engineering effort but also the procurement and construction/commissioning.

For engineering the deliverable life will be broken down in several steps and for each steps You will earn an agree percentage of its weight.

To roll up in P3 I suggest to do not put all the deliverables with their steps. Or You will have a huge quantity of info, and it will be not any more a management control tools.

So You must aggregate some deliverables toghether, the way must be agree again with the Client, for area, scope, etc...

and in P3 just load this "summary" activities.

Then You update the progress of these ones in P3 from the info coming through the document register.

The same can be done for the procurement, and in certain way for the construction.

I/we used this method a for a lot of projects, it always "worked". It means we never had problems with the Client, after we show him how is working and that all the links are not missing.



For any more detail You can contact me directly, without problems.



Luca