Let’s Challenge SPIDER

Oh Dear Anoon



I did not say to ignore Floats, you misquote me



If you had read my posting properly you would have noted that there was a quote at the top of the article and unquote at the end of the article, which was the work of a third person, Glen with whom I in the main in agreement



The example is rather savage and not helpful in this utter waste of time re Float.

There are two free floats, one is called Early Free Float and the Other is Late Free Float

These were originally derrived from arrow diagrams, you cannot correctly calculate them in Precedence



If a task has as you say 100 units of TF but Zero Free Float, then you cannot delay the task because if you do you will delay tasks futher down the float chain, as there is a link coming from this task which is critical



All of you seem to think that float or what ever is tasked based.



Total Float is a value shared along a chain of tasks with that same value. So if the first task with TF of 20 is not delayed then the second and or successive tasks may be delayed by 20, If the second task is delayed by 10, then the rest of the chain now only has 10 units of float to share.



If you used Arrow Diagrams none of you would have this bother as the Arrow diagram is fundementally clear.

Read Patrick Weaver’s paper on Float in Octobers PM World today e-magazine, which caused Glen to make his statement.



It would appear that all of you have nothing better to do than argue over a very trivial matter.



You are not serving your clients very well as you should be Planning and Scheduling the project in hand.



Obviously the folk in other countries appear to be able to estimate 100% accurately task durations ever time all the time. Which might make the float value meaningful



You obviously do not understand ’Statistical Deviation, which is generally accepted as being plus or minus three percent of the answer.



So Total Float really is quite meaningless, especially after resource scheduling.



Once the algortithm has allocated the resource for the task to use between the start and finish dates, there can NEVER be a time when you as the individual can come along unilaterally as say "OH, thers’s two days Total Float left I think I will delay the task for that time.



Because now, you have completely STUFFED up the resource allocation.



Frankly I do not care what one bit or another software package does, my job is to ensure I deliver my clients the project ON TIME and ON budget.



Nothing more, nothing less.



If you think carrying on about about float does that then you are quite mistaken.



By the way I manage a fair number of my under $1 million projects by hand, don’t need a computer,..... oh woe is me, what has happened to my Total Float :-)



By the way,again, Hot of the press, If you want to understand about AOA or AON read Dennis Lock’s new book on "Aviation Project Management" By Triant G. Flouris, Dennis Lock



You most definitely will learn something from the even older master than me.



Raf

Hi Vladimir,



You mentioned about floats, do you mean in general? Because I supposed there are "Free Floats" and "Total Floats", what if the two differs for the same activity?



For example: an activity (or all the activities) has zero free float but at the same time it shows 100 days total float (for some activities - if not all). What does it mean? How an activity with zero free float, but with 100 days total float will impact the schedule once it is delayed?



Or shall I believe the "elder Raf" to just forget about floats?



Best Regards

To all,



In my prior posting, "Activity 1 and Activity B cannot happen at the same time." Shall read, Activities 1, 2 and 4 cannot happen all at the same time.



Vladimir,



I will get into some modeling for 3 versions of the same job soon and wonder if they necessarily have to be named optimistic, probable and pessimistic. I have not explored this functionality yet.



You already know we have a need to model the official schedule that will always be missing some activities until a change is approved, and our version that includes those new activities, already in progress but not allowed to be shown in the official CPM. This because of legal implications, here the interpretation of the law complicates things.



Transferring updating data from one version to the other is time consuming and error prone, this Spider functionality can be very useful.



Best regards,

Rafael

Ralph,



You are good, but no sugar glider, in any case a dingo. Being in project management for many years you cannot be a prima dona, you can get a beating and get out of it as if nothing happened.



Your differing point of view, coming from a beautiful mind just add value to the debate.



Vladimir,



If you want I can hold him while you beat him.



Ronal Winter is a Primavera Partner so he might not join the discussion, though it would be great.



Unfortunately Primavera bought P3 and did not have these minds into their team to get P3 where it was supposed. P3 never fully realized the change from CPM to the more advanced precedence functionality.



I understand resource float must consider limit of concurrent use of resource float, look at the following example, Activity 1 and Activity B cannot happen at the same time, therefore resource float for both activities cannot be equal. Consider available quantity for Resource A = 3ea and that the only precedence link is FS between activities 3 and 4.







Best regards,

Rafael

OOPs

That should say ’The rest" shines ...



Raf

Raf - the Younger



Well I am more hair challenge than you in that case

I have thirty % Grey and the shines in the dark



:-)



Gave up the moustache ten years ago



Raf - the Elder

Ralph,



As you know I always liked Micro Planner, and agree with you about the need for better resource allocation algorithms, believe you are a pioneer in the practical application of these.



I also agree with your hands down approach to project management. We never disclose float to our subcontractors and not even to our crews, the problem is with the Project Manager that have access to float values as shown by the software. Therefore I have some need for it to be better than what most software shows.



Yes we understand it varies with time, varies with the specific resource leveling algorithm, I have no problem with this. Well for some reason someone called it Phantom Float. I still believe Spider is correct, is better than showing no float computation but those who cannot compute float as limited by the driving constraints, other than precedence logic should not show it at all, they are misleading the client while Spider alerts the client on the interpretation of float.



About the elder one, I have 80% grey hair, 10% white hair and 10% no hair, my moustache makes up the missing 10%.



Keep debating; it is always good to hear from you.



Best regards,

Rafael

Micro Planner’s Resource Algorithm will when a resource runs out select from a specified group of resource where each has a (what I call a weighting) and select the most approriate resource to do the task. so if I am short of a Senior Computer Programmer who does their work at a 100% and I have available a senior Systems person who is very experienced and say twice as good, Micro Planner will the halve the time or quantity required.

You are to hung up on Float

According to Earl Glenright who is well known in the states

Who responded to an article on Float he says

Quote

In Response to the article in the November 2009 PM World Today by Pat Weaver explaining the various types of activity ‘float’

20 November 2009



Dear Editor,



Float ??? Who cares ?



Here’s another point of view - mine !



I don’t think this treatise on calculating float enlightens anyone and may compromise their understanding and add to their confusion.



What does it matter what kind or how much ’float’ there is?



Once the scheduling phase is complete, there should not be any references to ’float’. Telling anyone on the project, including owners, that they have ’float’ is opening Pandora’s Box for chaos.



A baseline schedule is THE schedule of the work plan. It can not ’float’ !

If the performers of the work think they can ’float’ their work, soon all activities are ’critical’!



And instead of sharing ’float’ the managers of the earliest activities will use all they can get.



We all know that ’float’ is a mathematical result of the unrestrained analysis of the activity network. We also know that it is used in the scheduling process to schedule peak resource demands into lower periods of demand by ’floating’ the less critical activities.

Once the schedule is set, ’float’ has no intrinsic value. In fact, incorrectly declaring that there is ’float’ is misleading and subjects the planned work schedule to disruption during execution.



A simple example:



3 subcontractors are told they have ’float’ or ’Total Float’ days for their work. Now suppose each of them applies this ’float’ to scheduling their work. When their work plan is integrated with the parent work plan, a hiatus results. But you told me I had ’float’ and here it is shown on the printout of the schedule.



The restriction of links to only F-S is becoming more frequent in scheduling specifications.



Why? Because bad experience leads to good judgment.



Actually the S-S and F-F links are attempts to schedule the work even before resources are considered. I do acknowledge that correcting logic-links is easier in PDM than ADM. (note that I said ’correcting’)



In conclusion, messing around with ’float’ in any of its variations is diverting management from the real world. ’Float’ is in a fantasy world.



Speaking of diverting attention, there is an Eastern Pennsylvania (Pennsylvania Dutch)

saying that is very applicable to the misunderstanding and use of ‘float’



"As you travel on thru life brother

Whatever be your goal,

Keep your eye upon the donut

And not upon the hole"



And so it is with ‘float’. Keep your eye on the work plan and schedule, not the ‘float’



Earl Glenwright, PE, PSP

Colorado, USA



UNquote



There you have it, now it must be time for Rafael and Vladimir to go back to work and find something else to talk about



Raf (the elder one :-) )

Agustin,



Welcome, I am working on my own sample jobs using Spider resource leveling, the most basic Spider algorithm give me better results than Primavera, I even had to fool Spider using priorities to mimic bad resource leveling by Primavera SureTrak to show how bad it is at showing float after resource leveling.



I just simply cannot understand how you can use the resource constraining functionality available in the other software as they will give you wrong float. The natural reaction for a project manager will be to believe available float as shown in these software is correct. They will be making the incorrect choices.



Tell me how it is possible there is no panic with these other software when it is so simple to understand?



Hope you add value to the discussion, common sense tells me that at some point others will realize how ahead Spider is.



I am not to wait, keep following this thread and show me your tricks, this is just starting to get better.



About risk analysis I am still hooked on Monte Carlo, from my collegue days back in the 70’s, but Vladimir has a point about how the practical results are when compared to Spider approach, sensitivity analysis is a concept I understand and willing to accept if Spider approach is equivalent and more efficient. No sientific theory just a few practical examples will be enough. But keep in mind this is still kind of high level analysis for the everyday job.



Best regards,

Rafael

Hi Rafael,

I am working with Spider Project for 5 years after I worked more than 10 years with MS Project and Primavera on all versions. I found extremely useful the use of resource skills. It is one of the major features (among many other) who allow you to organize better the resources and to get a feasible plan after resource constrained scheduling. Because other PM software does not use such an approach, Spider will give a project duration shorter than the duration computed with the other software. And if you combine this feature with the variable resource quantity or workload, you will get surprising results. However, this is not enough. You still need to perform the project risk analysis.

Best regards,

Augustin

Vladimir,



No, I do not know of other scheduling software that includes skill scheduling for resources with different productivities.



I am not surprised Spider is the only one; as a matter of fact it was my suspicion, just look at my posting #213.



Best regards,

Rafael

BACKUP ALL YOUR DATA FILES, REMEMBER NOT ALL FILES ARE STORED UNDER MY DOCUMENTS



WILL KEEP IN TOUCH



In Spider Project:



Resources and/or multi-resources are organized as resource skills in case they can be assigned to the activity execution as alternatives even with different productivities, costs and other characteristics. When a resource skill is assigned to the activity execution, total quantity (or productivity) of comprising resources (and/or multi-resources) is specified.



Spider Project automatically selects resources (or multi-resources) to be assigned to activity in order to fulfill all restrictions. User preset priorities of resources (multi-resources) are also taken into consideration: resources (multi-resources) with lower priority will be assigned to the activity execution in case they are only available in the required time period.



It is great functionality that allows you to replace or interchange similar resources as needed. The best way to understand it is by exploring its application using a sample job. Because Primavera SureTrak does not have this functionality it is kind of new to me. Spider is not the only software with this functionality, in the application of it is where the software might differ.



Best regards,

Rafael

Hi Rafael,



I supposed this "Skills Functionality" refers to the "Unsual Efforts" that you may use if you find that your Contract time or duration is not reasonable.



i’m sorry my monitor is blinking...

Thanks Vladimir,



I am not used to the skills functionality, although I heard about it before it is kind of new to me having software capable of modeling skills. I wonder if the other few that can model skills can do it so elegantly, especially with regards to productivity and with regard to the option to choose assignment by number or by total production rate.



Next week I will take my time to copy and paste into a text document a selection of your answers for my future reference.



Best regards,

Rafael

Vladimir,



When scheduling for heavy construction your interchangeable resources, will be selected based on availability, these in turn might have different productivities that depending on the selected resource(s) will drive the activity duration.



Suppose I have 3 backhoes each with different production rates but interchangeable within my construction activities. I cannot model this in Primavera P3/SureTrak, can Spider Project do that? How?



And what about this one, Backhoe type A must be interchanged with 2ea Backhoes type B and these in combination will produce 20% more than type A.



Although I am more into Building Construction I believe a good model for this kind of situations got to be useful to the Heavy Construction PM, especially when suddenly a few pieces of equipment break and he has to redistribute the remaining.



Best regards,

Rafael

Hi Vladimir



Which of these is the true russian spider?



паук



кровопийца



таган



звезда (коллектора)



крестовина



Best regards



Mike Testro

Vladimir,



The following job seems like a perfect fit for Spider Project where optimum resource leveling and scheduling for several work shifts are the call of the day. Of course the modeling of limited work space using special resource types available in Spider Project are a must have.







Best regards,

Rafael

Vladimir,



This feature will be welcomed but I cannot wait to see conditional relationships, this is going to be something out of the ordinary.



Did you noticed my 2 activities sample job no other software can give you the right float under resource leveling. I just simply cannot understand why others don’t get how important it is. Is like they never worked on the side of a Project Manager that looks at the CPM in search of available float to manage his schedule. With the wrong float under resource leveling you are misled.



Software that cannot provide you with true float under resource constraining should show nothing or at least a warning telling you that the shown floats cannot be trusted. They are misleading the user; probably they should be liable as this is a negligent omission they are aware of.



Best regards,

Rafael

Vladimir,



I was exploring the shortcut keys for the creation of WBS, with these I can create a full WBS structure in less than 5 minutes, very similar to the way MS Project creates outlining but with auto WBS codes, just a matter of learning a couple of shortcut key combinations for the equivalent of indenting, outdenting is not needed it is just a matter of selecting the right level to create new phases as needed.



Carlos,



You should explore these shortcut key combinations in addition to the WBS Chart Diagram that let you change the structure by drag and drop.







Also check on the Save Configuration that let you save your columns selection for both column panes in separate files you can transfer with ease from job to job; sorry, all other software have only one column pane. This is kind of equivalent to the layouts functionality in Primavera Products just that within a configuration you can select different views at a click of the mouse without the need to define a layout for each one.



After selecting a WBS row level or/phase or an activity row right click of the mouse will provide you with a navigation shorcut you will never want to go back.



Best regards,

Rafael

Carlos, hide your last name, dont’t give any clue to Vladimir.

Congratulations Vladimir for reaching 200 posts in this topic!! It is a great adventure to be learning Spider.



For this 200 post here’s a little trivia:



What’s the spanish word for "Spider" ?



The answer may amaze you.



C. Arana

Vladimir,



I tried Portfolio Management within the demo as per your suggestion; you should have not mentioned it. Now that I found how easy Portfolio Management can be as compared to P6 I am starting to like the functionality.



Most of my clients will prefer the desktop version because of price, 1/3rd that of P3 and P6, with 99% of all the goodies and not a stripped down to a G-string version as Primavera Contractor is. Most want everyone in the management team to have their own license, and there are a few that really need the Portfolio Management functionality, and being so easy why not.



Best regards,

Rafael

To assign priorities, select the activity/phase by double clicking on the line as to show the activity/phase properties dialog box there on the Data/Initial Data tab you can enter the priority or you can enter the data into any one of the two the Gantt Chart column panes, after you make the priority column to show, and there you can assign activity/phase priority.



It will be interesting to know how the results vary depending on the leveling method selected, optimization might favor the owner. We are lagging with these methods, here Vladimir can tell us about the Russian experience.



Also would like to know if the resource critical float and path help others to understand resource availability can be critical. It is kind of ironic how our definition of float cannot be correctly shown under limited resources in most of our specified software (other than Spider).



Best regards,

Rafael

I GOT A RESOURCE LOADED SCHEDULE!



I made a schedule for the realization of a productivity claim, involving me and another analyst.



CTRL+F9 gives the duration of the claim works, without adding any relationship =D. But it gets the final evaluation in the beggining and the information collecting last ... How do I assign priorities?

Vladimir,



1. What is the purpose of the option for selecting one of your many WBS as the Main WBS?

2. Is this for Project portfolios, to tell the software which to use?

3. If for Project Portfolios can I change the WBS of a particular project to another WBS by changing the particular job Main WBS?

4. What about other users on the network can they select their own WBS per job on a Portfolio?

5. How many projects you can have on a single portfolio?



Keep in mind the demo does not have the Portfolios/Enterprise functionalities; I have no way of exploring these.



I would appreciate if you can e-mail me a screen capture of a screen showing a multiple jobs Activity GANTT .



Best regards,

Rafael

Carlos,



You can explore in Excel the following formulas, you can figure out how to adapt them to your holidays. About Good Friday you must ask a Maya Indian, they figured out the calendar for moon phases.











Best regards,

Rafael

Thank you Vladimir and Rafael, I’m now making my planning. I must say, it got a smile out of me when I introduced my work hours and Spider calculated the daily hours and the workweek.



I’m wondering if there’s a way to model some holydays of the type: "Third monday of February" (USA President’s day) or "Third monday of March" (Mexico’s President Day).



Now that you mention it Rafael, I wish I coud be in Cancun or Acapulco right now, lying in a Hammock under the palms with my coco and my tekila. But they are some hundred KM from my place, I must do a careful planning. Think of it, since Spider has Hammocks, It now just needs cocos and tekila.



Best regards.

Carlos

Carlos,



I just heard that Spider Project new version is about to be released. It will have conditional formulas to define relationships, unique new functionality above ancient CPM functionality, FS and no lag, also above now antiquated PDM schedules with only SS, SF, FS and FF with lag relationships in precedence schedules and no more.



To me true float and optimal resource allocation available in Spider Project and nowhere else was a checkmate on all the others, at the click of the mouse, no brain needed, but this will be like checkmate on the first move.



As soon as this new functionality is on the demo you should explore it, this is serious stuff.



Best regards,

Rafael

Carlos,



In Spider Project you can import P3e files to Spider Project, this option might work better when importing from P6 to Spider Project converting from P6 to P3 to Spider Project (P3e not equal to P3 similar names different software) .



From Spider Help:



The user can import a project from Primavera P3e SQL database to Spider Project. To perform import:



In the Main window menu select File –> Create Project –> From Primavera Data Base.



In the opened Create project from database dialog box select required Primavera P3e database and press Open. In the opened list of projects (with project codes, version number and name) the user can select required project (for further import) or press Close (to stop import and close database).



Press Import. Selected project will be imported to Spider Project. Code and name of the imported project will appear in the opened Project properties dialog box.



Note that: the user must have database options set for the database from which the project is imported. In order to establish initial connection to Primavera P3e database the user must specify user name privuser and password privuser.



During Primavera P3e project import database fields without counterpart in Spider Project database structure are transferred to user-type fields (see Fields’ list dialog box). These fields can be useful in some cases; e.g. to obtain the same activities order as in Primavera P3e project the user can sort activities in the Activity Gantt by seq_num field.



Best regards,

Rafael

Carlos,



About your question no 1:



In Spider Project you are not limited to a single WBS, you can have as many as you want, and yes you can define any WBS on activity codes, no surprise you are not limited in how many activity codes you can define in case 20 or 30 is not enough.







There is more than meets the eye to this functionality as there is some other powerful functionality regarding the handling of WBS in Spider Project.



About importing activity codes directly from P3, I do expect when you import a P3 file into Spider Project these will be imported.



About your question no 2:



I believe in Spider Project you can set the activity type to productivity and then the duration of the activity will be calculated during scheduling. Initial data for this activity type is its volume and assignments productivity, from this everything will follow.



Explore the above until Vladimir can expand.



How is the weather in Acapulco and Cancun? Here seems like a perfect day for scuba diving. Yes, but Murphy says on the weekend it will rain.



Vladimir,



Seems like our response crossed in the way. Can you expand on Spider Project P3 import, do we get the activity codes imported? The demo does not have the P3 import functionality available.



Best regards,

Rafael

Hi again! I’m coming back from a long period of internet shortage.

Thanks Vladimir for the answer in collaborative work. Last week I mentioned Spider in a talk with my boss when he mentioned they will be updating the P6 licenses this year.

Now, I have been using Spider in my (little) spare time, trying to see if I can get a similar workflow in Spider than the P3’s workflow the managers are used to. The first thing is, Contractual (signed) schedule is grouped and sorted according to P3 activity codes. So, this post’s question #1 is: Given the case, can Spider use P3 activity codes to group and sort the gantt chart?



Question #2: How do I define an activity where a person can write one page per three hours (this includes necessary research), if he has to write 30 pages working 10 hours daily? The day starts at 8:00 AM, then we get one and half hour free at 2:00 PM, to return to the office at 03:30 PM until 7:30 PM where we say Yabadaba-doo and leave the office.

Hi All



What a response!



I am only 12 days into the task and already you have listed one or two of the particular problems.



The main problem however is controlling the "Lead In" tasks where for even a simple Pot Hole infill of 2 days duration there are about 125 taslks that have to be completed in time before the start.



Road Closure permits are only a part of all the consultations and surveys that have to be undertaken by about 8 different agencies before a truck goes out with a bucket of tar and grit and three guys to fill up the hole.



I have estimated that the full programme will exceed 200mb.



This is my first hands on experience of public sector working and it is a big eye opener.



In the real commercial world the same work load would be done with about 30% of the current work force.



Best regards



Mike Testro.

Lucky you, we are not in preventive maintenance, more like in covering potholes. They come out faster than we can cover them.

Hi Anoon



Have a look here:

http://www.maintenanceworld.com/Articles/worshamw/ispreventive.html



"Preventive maintenance is planned maintenance of plant and equipment that is designed to improve equipment life and avoid any unplanned maintenance activity. PM includes painting, lubrication, cleaning, adjusting, and minor component replacement to extend the life of equipment and facilities. Its purpose is to minimize breakdowns and excessive depreciation." (quotation from this site)



With other words: If e.g. you know that after 100000hours of operation there is a risk, a certain pump will break down, you’ll change it after 100000 hours to prevent a plant or a refinery from breakdown or you’ll exchange engine oil of a car on a regular basis.



Best regards

Dieter