Using P3ec Vs. P3 - In Construction Applications

One point that seems to have been missed in this discussion is the fact that P3e is a central database and as such communications become an issue.



Im sure many of you have worked at construction sites where network speed back to the head office server was painfully slow and in some cases non-existant.



I used P3e on a corporate network and even though we had high speed links between the offices, if the lines were conjested or down you may as well go make a coffee or go home!



Give me stand alone P3 on a construction site any day :)

I feel P3 e/c is a good software if you know excatly how to use it, and if you want to buy standalone P3 e/c in place of p3 v3 then its not a good idea...because its a Enterprise version and required when company is dong good number of projects at different locations or in different fields. Not only this all the users need to be well trained in it.

I feel P3 e/c is good for Earned value management & Multiproject controling or when owner/DEC & Contractors are at different locations.



It is user friendly.

Finally it is a good software but you can not compare it with P3 v3 both have some advantage & disadvantage....



Regards

Eric,



My reply to Bill (about his age) was ment in a funny way.



I can see his point and i can see your point. I’m also a big fan of p3win and have used it for the last 8 Years. However i think P3e is a better piece of software than most (old p3win) users think because they look ad it through the eyes of a p3win user (cant blame them). On the other hand if i was the programmer i would have used p3win as the basis for the software (i’m told that this was not possible).





Regards



Henk

Dear All,



To be fair to Primavera company, Primavera has to come out a product like P3 e/c, which is based on SOL database, to place them continuously as a leader in the market. However, I don’t understand why the company is not upgrading P3 win as a separate line of product by using an evolutionary approach. P3 win still can be improved a lot in terms of users interface, and it can be done easily with little efforts. With this approach, they still can enjoy the benefit of the continuous and increasing (if they lower the price a little bit) revenues from P3 win. Unfortunately, it seems to me that Primavera turn around stick a different label - P3 e/c and sell to the construction industry after it comes out with a P3 enterprise (P3 e) for manufacturing industry. This is really a cheap shot. Anyway, Primavera is still a private company. Otherwise, we can easily see how they are doing with this strategy. The financial data will speak for themselves.



Here are some simple examples why P3 e/c is taking revolution approach from P3. Fragnets are now called Methodologies. Hammock activity is now called Level of effort activity. Costs are now called Expenses. Estimate to complete (resource) is now called Remaining units. If you were the existing users of P3 win for a long time, it is natural that you will have some resistance yourself, not to mentioned to convince others. On the other hand, the new users are more adaptable to P3 e/c as they don’t have any burden.



I remember 15 year ago when I started using P3 (for DOS), I was trying very hard to explain to people what “Fragnet” and “Hammock” mean, which can never be found in the dictionary (Fragent). Finally, few people have asked me the same questions. Those terms are now widely used in the construction scheduling specification in US and finally receive recognition. Think about what would happen if we introduce them “Methodologies” or “Level of Effort”.



In final words, after I studied P3 e/c, I tend to think this is a different product than P3 so that I can appreciate it. However, Primavera has trying to make an equal sign between two products for some reasons, which I think it really disturbs many existing users. . It Primavra company insists on making p3 e/c = P3, the making of the success of P3 win will inevitably determine the future of P3 e/c (at least for construction industry).



A final message to Henk: We should pay more respect for those people around 50 years old are still actively using computer. They are the people born in the changing time. Just thinking about how they went through punching cards to PC, DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95 till now, Windows XP, etc. They are the true survivors! Also I do remember the switching from P3 DOS to P3 Win is such swift and successful. I don’t know why this time is such slow and it shouldn’t be this way.



Eric Chou, PE

HTC Project Controls, Inc.

www.HTCProjectControls.com

Philip,

you can download Spider Project from http://www.spiderproject.ru/spider_e.php

There is a construction project example (that includes financing and revenues) with the simulation of construction processes (including working in 2 shifts). Try it and ask questions because the software has a lot of functions that are not usual in other software.

I am interested in your oppinion.

Spider Project can export/import information into P3e and MS Project. With P3 you shall use special mpx format.

Demo has 40 activities restriction.

Vladimir

Philip



I think the P3e 3 years ago cant be compared to wat it is now.

In my country (Netherlands) we’ve never got the advise to switch from P3win to P3e because it were 2 complete diferent programs. 1 as a enterprise solution ?? en one for the professional project planner. Now P3e has developed to a stage were you can consider to make a switch from p3win to p3e Because P3e has a lot of the good features from p3win (still not everything). But i still think you should only switch if you work in a multiproject environment because than you can expirience the benefits of the strong multiproject structure. If not stick to P3win because it is still the most powerfull project planning tool (i think)





Regards



Henk

Hi Bill,



I had a look at P3e about 3/4 years ago, it was a retrogessive step to P3, as P3 set an industry standard, P3e is a impractical measure to distanciate engineers/PM’s further from planning, than they have ever been, and to deliver the so-called planning profession, from the hands of engineers/Pm’s, into the hands of schedulers/computer operators.

The point is to give Engineers/Project management People a tool to be able to interface. I do not believe any software developer hes come close to the solution.

MS Projects has tried it, but they forgot to consult the the projects people, P3 had a winning formula, but forgot it, the same applies to welcom, ie Open plan, who had a winning formula in OP4 dos version, but got clever because of MS Windows, Vladimir, tells me all about Spider, but I cannot find it.



Where is the next generation coming from?

Bill,



I hope you’re older than 50

Otherwise you or your company have to use this software (what is still very powerfull now) for a very long time.

But when we look backwards and see how software has developped (good or bad) i doubt if p3win will be used over 10 years from now since all new knowhow is put in P3e. Personaly i think P3e will be the standard in a few years from now. And maybe all the old p3win user will feel comfortable with it (i am one of them)





Never the les good luck.



Regards





Henk

Hi Scott,



No doubt in my mind, P3 e/c is a superior product. However, as it is first called “Enterprise”, P3 e/c is mainly targeting for the big players such as Fortune 500 companies. The use of the SQL database in P3 e/c, which can be easily integrated into the company’s Enterprise backbone, makes it better enterprise software than old P3 product. I was told that this product is expected to make more profit for the company from those industries than construction. Anyway, I would see them to be two different products.



However, I feel that the terminologies and design implication are too complicated for most people in construction industry. Furthermore, the needs for “integration” in a construction company are not as critical as other industries such as manufacturing, etc. P3 e/c is quite easy to learn in terms of the users interface. However, it is very difficult to be implemented in construction. The terminologies such as Enterprise Project Structure (EPS), Methodology, Roles, Nodes, etc are too alien and redundant for the people in the construction industry.



I don’t think that the issue of one or multiple projects can be the criteria for switching software either. Please be reminded that P3 also has the feature of “Subproject” to handle multiple projects. If you want an easier life, you can also put all projects in one P3 project file. It all depends on how you implement the software.



Again, if you just use P3 stand alone, I don’t think you have a need for P3 e/c. Furthermore, I am pretty sure that every reports or solutions you need in construction industry can be done in P3. If you already invested in P3, why change for northing? I think that there will be no way for Primavera to change the way the construction is doing business for years by a product or “vision”. Believe or not, P3 will be sold for long time as the demand is still there. Even they stop the sale of P3; you still own your copy. Why worry about?



Eric Chou, PE

HTC Project Controls, Inc.

www.HTCProjectControls,com

Hi Scot,



I think if you’re feeling good with P3win there’s no urgent to get into P3e, but i think P3e is the right software for the future.



Yes i also had some trouble going from P3win to P3e, but i had this experience before several years ago when i was going from MSP to P3win. Oke its nog exactly the same but the problem is P3e is not P3win+ You have to look ad it from another angle and in the end (after several months)i learned that especialy in a multiproject inveronment P3e is the better software.



Regards



Henk

Hi,



I think it depends.

If your work is mainly planning one project for a longer period you dont have the benifit of the very strong multiproject environment.

Then you better stick to P3win as long its not a problem for your ICT environment (P3win is 16bits technology).

However if you work in a multiproject environment or you want to experience the luxury to have all the information in one single database so resource code’s etc can be shared i suggest you switch to P3enterprise. I’ve made the switch myself and i’m working in a construction environment (multiproject)



Regards



Henk

Hi there,



In my opinion it is better to stick to P3 at this point of time, unless you are are intergrating your financial systems, time sheets etc.



Thanks & regards



Dinesh