There is an EoT clause with 16 potential different entitlement events, (Cl18 Risk Management).
It’s a very different contract from anything else around as ALL partnering parties, (Employer, main contractor, consultants and specialist sub contractors), sign up to the SAME contract. i.e they are ALL parties to ONE contract, not seperate contracts between each other as would be usual. Each party owes a duty of care to all the other parties. It would be a challenge seperating responsibilities.
Just waiting for a project to go wrong under this standard form as sorting it out could potentially be the worst nightmare you could come across due to the multiparty structure of the contract.
I have no experience of the PPC 2000 form but I did preface my first thread with a phrase something like "Unless your contract states anything to the contrary ...."
Is there an extension of time clause?
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
20 years 10 months
Member for20 years10 months
Submitted by Andrew Flowerdew on Fri, 2009-07-10 07:02
PPC2000 doesnt have any liquidated clauses in. Its a full blown partnering contract and an LD clause was thought not to be appropriate as the contract is all about the design/construction process being a team effort! But there is nothing to stop the employer sueing for unlidquidated damages as you say.
The answer to the question appears to be 10 weeks if no eot is due on the date of completion.
Member for
17 years 4 months
Member for17 years4 months
Submitted by Andrew Owenson on Wed, 2009-07-08 06:54
The second sectional completion is a date in the contract (which is 12 weeks later than the first). The LAD’s have been removed for all sectional completuions with one LAD only for the contract end.
This means that the damages arising from not hitting the sectional completion dates are "At Large".
In other words whatever loss and expense the client incurrs for late sectional completion is down to the contractor.
This could be very large amounts.
This has nothing to do with the end date and overall completion.
I would advise three things:
1. Get a quick legal opinion on effect of Damages at Large.
2. Ascertain what the true damages might be - err on the high side
3. Do everything possible to complete on time.
Best regards and Good Luck
Mike Testro
Member for
17 years 4 months
Member for17 years4 months
Submitted by Andrew Owenson on Wed, 2009-07-08 05:00
Thanks for your input, kind off hoping someone would say move the second sectional completion. Just thought of something I miised out in the first post. The first section of the works is programmed to complete and then the client does some decanting and other works, totally out of our control and we literally have nothing to dow with this. He will then hand over the next area to us ie section two. Again section two is programmed for 12 weeks but we overan section one by 2 weeks, the client is currently carrying out his works at the moment. Does this change anything. The original sectional completions included for 10 weeks for section one 2 weeks for client works and 12 for the second section. I suppose I am clutching at straws with this ??
If the 2 wks. delayed section would affect the succeeding sectional completion (i.e. Section B activities is dependent to Section A activities, and are in critical path), then you need to accelerate the work and complete within 10wks., in order to achieve the original 12wks. sectional completion.
I believe at that stage you should implement recovery plans & schedule into your works, rather than looking on contractual aspects (since sectional completion do not incur LADs). Catch up!!
Cheers…
Member for
17 years 4 months
Member for17 years4 months
Submitted by Andrew Owenson on Wed, 2009-07-08 04:50
The second sectional completion is a date in the contract (which is 12 weeks later than the first). The LADs have been removed for all sectional completuions with one LAD only for the contract end.
Hope this clarifies matters.
Regards
Andrew
Member for
16 years 7 months
Member for16 years7 months
Submitted by Gary Whitehead on Tue, 2009-07-07 16:03
I’m not familiar with the PPC2000 contract, but unless the 2nd sectional completion date is expressed in the contract as being 12 weeks after the 1st, then you only have 10 weeks.
It’s more common (in the contracts I’ve worked on) for the 2nd sectional completion date to be expressed as either a hard date, or as x weeks from contract award.
Samer makes a good suggestion about discussing it with the client, though -You may well find a sympathetic ear.
And obviously Mike’s red alert is highly noteworthy.
It depends on your Contractural Commitments. If your next sectional handing over date must be met, then you have 10 weeks to meet the new dead line. On the other hand, if you can carry over the 2 weeks up to the end of the project, and no LDs are going to be applied, then you are shifting all the remaining contactual milestones by 2 weeks.
Best solution is to discuss it with your client and determine the course of action to take.
Member for
20 years 10 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Mike,
There is an EoT clause with 16 potential different entitlement events, (Cl18 Risk Management).
It’s a very different contract from anything else around as ALL partnering parties, (Employer, main contractor, consultants and specialist sub contractors), sign up to the SAME contract. i.e they are ALL parties to ONE contract, not seperate contracts between each other as would be usual. Each party owes a duty of care to all the other parties. It would be a challenge seperating responsibilities.
Just waiting for a project to go wrong under this standard form as sorting it out could potentially be the worst nightmare you could come across due to the multiparty structure of the contract.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Hi Andrew
Thanks for that information.
I have no experience of the PPC 2000 form but I did preface my first thread with a phrase something like "Unless your contract states anything to the contrary ...."
Is there an extension of time clause?
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
20 years 10 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Mike,
PPC2000 doesnt have any liquidated clauses in. Its a full blown partnering contract and an LD clause was thought not to be appropriate as the contract is all about the design/construction process being a team effort! But there is nothing to stop the employer sueing for unlidquidated damages as you say.
The answer to the question appears to be 10 weeks if no eot is due on the date of completion.
Member for
17 years 4 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Mike
Sound advice, and thanks to everyone who participated.
Many thanks
Andrew
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Hi Andrew
The second sectional completion is a date in the contract (which is 12 weeks later than the first). The LAD’s have been removed for all sectional completuions with one LAD only for the contract end.
This means that the damages arising from not hitting the sectional completion dates are "At Large".
In other words whatever loss and expense the client incurrs for late sectional completion is down to the contractor.
This could be very large amounts.
This has nothing to do with the end date and overall completion.
I would advise three things:
1. Get a quick legal opinion on effect of Damages at Large.
2. Ascertain what the true damages might be - err on the high side
3. Do everything possible to complete on time.
Best regards and Good Luck
Mike Testro
Member for
17 years 4 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Larry
Thanks for your input, kind off hoping someone would say move the second sectional completion. Just thought of something I miised out in the first post. The first section of the works is programmed to complete and then the client does some decanting and other works, totally out of our control and we literally have nothing to dow with this. He will then hand over the next area to us ie section two. Again section two is programmed for 12 weeks but we overan section one by 2 weeks, the client is currently carrying out his works at the moment. Does this change anything. The original sectional completions included for 10 weeks for section one 2 weeks for client works and 12 for the second section. I suppose I am clutching at straws with this ??
Many Regards
Andrew
Member for
18 yearsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Andrew,
If the 2 wks. delayed section would affect the succeeding sectional completion (i.e. Section B activities is dependent to Section A activities, and are in critical path), then you need to accelerate the work and complete within 10wks., in order to achieve the original 12wks. sectional completion.
I believe at that stage you should implement recovery plans & schedule into your works, rather than looking on contractual aspects (since sectional completion do not incur LADs). Catch up!!
Cheers…
Member for
17 years 4 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Gary & Mike
The second sectional completion is a date in the contract (which is 12 weeks later than the first). The LADs have been removed for all sectional completuions with one LAD only for the contract end.
Hope this clarifies matters.
Regards
Andrew
Member for
16 years 7 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Andrew,
I’m not familiar with the PPC2000 contract, but unless the 2nd sectional completion date is expressed in the contract as being 12 weeks after the 1st, then you only have 10 weeks.
It’s more common (in the contracts I’ve worked on) for the 2nd sectional completion date to be expressed as either a hard date, or as x weeks from contract award.
Samer makes a good suggestion about discussing it with the client, though -You may well find a sympathetic ear.
And obviously Mike’s red alert is highly noteworthy.
Cheers,
G
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Hi Andrew
When you said that there are no LADs involved the red alert went off.
Do you mean the LAD amount is zero or has the LAD part of the contract been deleted.
If deleted then you may be facing unlimited damages.
I advise you to check your contract very carefully snd get back to me ASAP.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Delayed Sectional Completion & following events
Dear Andrew,
It depends on your Contractural Commitments. If your next sectional handing over date must be met, then you have 10 weeks to meet the new dead line. On the other hand, if you can carry over the 2 weeks up to the end of the project, and no LDs are going to be applied, then you are shifting all the remaining contactual milestones by 2 weeks.
Best solution is to discuss it with your client and determine the course of action to take.
With kind regards,
Samer