I have jumped back and forth between 3.1 and the newer versions for the past couple of years. Both are very good tools and in the experience that I have had, the people who don’t like the newer versions of Primavera software are the ones who don’t like change. In these cases all of the people have poor attitudes in general and should get out of the projects game (RETIRE). IT’S ALL ABOUT CHANGE. Without it there would be no projects.
Cheers
Dave
Member for
20 years
Member for20 years
Submitted by Marcio Sampaio on Sun, 2006-09-17 22:01
Ill toss my two cents in here - as a beta tester for both the DOS versions and the initial Windows versions - P3ec (or whatever name you want to give it) is a loser. Ill echo the comments below about it being for IT folks and bean-counters - not for true planning professionals.
An example of why I think this way - what kind of true scheduling product wouldnt have a Zero Total Float (FASAP)constraint. Well heres one - and it wasnt fixed in 5.0.
This from some one who runs US$ 1BB+ projects.
Take some advice - go back to 3.x.
Tyler
Member for
19 years 3 months
Member for19 years3 months
Submitted by Arthur Godbeer on Fri, 2006-08-18 05:02
"installation of PM is extremely difficult and will take a stand-alone user a full day to accomplish"
?! Installation of PM (Project Management), along with the other two Windows-based programs (all three are installed by default, unless un-checked) takes all of perhaps five minutes, using a single Wizard. Including the sample database and data. This is if you use the default MSDE (Microsoft SQL Server Desktop Engine) database. If you are using full SQL Server or Oracle its slightly more complicated, in that you have to first install the chosen database system. But MSDE is provided for standalone and small server installations (up to 8 concurrent users).
Im not in tech support, but I have talked through this installation with several unsophisticated users (in terms of IT, not PM) over the telephone, with absolutely no problems.
If any of the browser-based roles are being used, then thats installed from a separate CD and is (relatively) more complex. But it would be very unusual for a standalone user to need or use any of the browser-based functionality.
It seems that these issues are a bit wide when it comes to function and usage, though i have seen common things that are similar like activity codes, wbs etc. but having been through a primavera 3.1 training recently, its another headache for me to be in another maze without having utilised the previous training in action.
Anyway, thanks for all your points, it has given me a clear picture of how to deal with this present "ordeal" im in - in this planning world that i called my world also.
Cheers,
Member for
22 years 10 months
Member for22 years10 months
Submitted by Ronald Winter on Wed, 2006-08-02 15:11
All very good responses. Note that many of them are not self-evident. This just underscores my point that PM is very difficult to learn without proper (formal) training.
Security for 1000 people is over-kill for just a couple, or one. My experience is in construction where a majority of the time, just one person is running the schedule.
I don’t believe that you appreciate the problems of using days in PM. While showing days, enter 1.5 into the remaining duration field. ‘2’ is displayed. Status the activity at 30% and remaining duration is ‘0’. The same sort of thing happens when using resource driven activities. Primavera has also experienced ‘bugs’ where entering actual finishes on milestones causes the activity to jump to the next day because of hourly assignments.
Lastly, the many options available also means that you have so many to check. Do you have Expected Finishes in your schedule? Did you remember to tell PM to ‘listen’ to them? Do you use external relationships? Did you remember to tell the CPM calculation mode to consider them? The settings and counter-settings are quite extensive.
I remember my boss complaining a long time ago that P3 was too complicated for the ‘average’ user to run. I told him that I liked it that way: all the more reason to pay me the ‘big bucks.’ Get your checkbook out for expert PM users (again a good thing.)
Member for
21 years 4 months
Member for21 years4 months
Submitted by Carmen Arape on Wed, 2006-08-02 14:32
I realized you had a tough experience with Project management (PM). Some comments that might help:
Adding activities to a project with the wizard ON, the n a WBS is required. SET wizard OFF , and you can have a project with a defined WBS.
Security set-ups : fully agree with, they are difficult for planners BUT not for an administrator. PM is an Enterprise tool, which means for me many users sharing data therefore and administrator is a MUST. May be a planner doing this role.
In PM, you always work in hours. I worked in days, no problem. Go TO Edit-User preferences. Don’t know why this very important option is placed under EDIT. Having activities in days and rates in $/Hr is not a problem when you define resources.
Lastly, your recommendation is valid, learn PM not trying to compare with P3, but I should add something: try to do same things that you have done with P3, you will be able to do it and MORE.
Cheers,
carmen
Member for
22 years 10 months
Member for22 years10 months
Submitted by Ronald Winter on Tue, 2006-08-01 22:18
That was not my experience. I found the core issues to be entirely different. In P3, the WBS is present but not required. In PM, you need to first figure out how to build your WBS before you can load your first schedule. I found loading schedules and reconfiguring all of the global OBSs, Resources, Activity Codes to be very difficult without training. Don’t get me started on Calendars – which are entirely different from that used in P3. Don’t forget security set-ups and minimum & maximum settings for 20 to 40 issues. In PM, you always work in hours. You can tell the program to only display days, but this causes problems sometimes when rates are computed or used.
Lastly, installation of PM is extremely difficult and will take a stand-alone user a full day to accomplish (more if you try to read the manuals first.) If you are setting-up PM to share with others, then count on a week to configure your common data server before you begin individual installations. Once you are done, you will yearn for the days of simple Btrieve databases. Data servers are much more complicated (and use more computer RAM) than Btrieve.
In the end, you will end up with a more powerful scheduling system. Not necessarily as stable or accurate as P3, but certainly with more features. I learned PM by not trying to compare it to P3, but to consider everything on its own and starting over. Good luck!
Member for
21 years 4 months
Member for21 years4 months
Submitted by Carmen Arape on Tue, 2006-08-01 15:25
I was a user of P3 3.1 in March and I have changed to Primavera Project management v4.1 in no more than two weeks.
A training course will help to understand What´s new BUT the core is the same. I found a Project management excellent in terms of: inputing data, wbs , resources and so on.
Cheers,
carmenh
Member for
22 years 10 months
Member for22 years10 months
Submitted by Ronald Winter on Tue, 2006-08-01 11:43
You are no longer using P3 when you run Primavera Project Management. This is the enterprise version and Primavera’s newest software, once called P3e, P3e/c, Primavera, and now P5. The names may sound similar, but the workings and file structures are entirely different.
In my opinion, knowing P3 will not help you at all when working with P5. Get yourself to a training class. Grab the manuals and read. Good luck!
Member for
19 years 3 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Gents,
I have jumped back and forth between 3.1 and the newer versions for the past couple of years. Both are very good tools and in the experience that I have had, the people who don’t like the newer versions of Primavera software are the ones who don’t like change. In these cases all of the people have poor attitudes in general and should get out of the projects game (RETIRE). IT’S ALL ABOUT CHANGE. Without it there would be no projects.
Cheers
Dave
Member for
20 yearsRE: Primavera Project Management
P3 was for planning engineers!!?? ... didnt understand.
Member for
19 years 1 monthRE: Primavera Project Management
Ill toss my two cents in here - as a beta tester for both the DOS versions and the initial Windows versions - P3ec (or whatever name you want to give it) is a loser. Ill echo the comments below about it being for IT folks and bean-counters - not for true planning professionals.
An example of why I think this way - what kind of true scheduling product wouldnt have a Zero Total Float (FASAP)constraint. Well heres one - and it wasnt fixed in 5.0.
This from some one who runs US$ 1BB+ projects.
Take some advice - go back to 3.x.
Tyler
Member for
19 years 3 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
"installation of PM is extremely difficult and will take a stand-alone user a full day to accomplish"
?! Installation of PM (Project Management), along with the other two Windows-based programs (all three are installed by default, unless un-checked) takes all of perhaps five minutes, using a single Wizard. Including the sample database and data. This is if you use the default MSDE (Microsoft SQL Server Desktop Engine) database. If you are using full SQL Server or Oracle its slightly more complicated, in that you have to first install the chosen database system. But MSDE is provided for standalone and small server installations (up to 8 concurrent users).
Im not in tech support, but I have talked through this installation with several unsophisticated users (in terms of IT, not PM) over the telephone, with absolutely no problems.
If any of the browser-based roles are being used, then thats installed from a separate CD and is (relatively) more complex. But it would be very unusual for a standalone user to need or use any of the browser-based functionality.
Member for
24 years 5 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Hi Charlie,
It seems to me that you change your loyalty already huh.
Cheers,
Se
Member for
19 years 4 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Hi Mr Joseph,
Can you help me out of this P3e- any study guide step by step.
Thanks
Member for
20 years 4 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Hi,
Ill go for P3e/ec or Pv5.0.
I think this is the new kid in town. I also like the software.
Regards,
Charlie
Member for
19 years 4 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Hello everyone,
It seems that these issues are a bit wide when it comes to function and usage, though i have seen common things that are similar like activity codes, wbs etc. but having been through a primavera 3.1 training recently, its another headache for me to be in another maze without having utilised the previous training in action.
Anyway, thanks for all your points, it has given me a clear picture of how to deal with this present "ordeal" im in - in this planning world that i called my world also.
Cheers,
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Carmen,
All very good responses. Note that many of them are not self-evident. This just underscores my point that PM is very difficult to learn without proper (formal) training.
Security for 1000 people is over-kill for just a couple, or one. My experience is in construction where a majority of the time, just one person is running the schedule.
I don’t believe that you appreciate the problems of using days in PM. While showing days, enter 1.5 into the remaining duration field. ‘2’ is displayed. Status the activity at 30% and remaining duration is ‘0’. The same sort of thing happens when using resource driven activities. Primavera has also experienced ‘bugs’ where entering actual finishes on milestones causes the activity to jump to the next day because of hourly assignments.
Lastly, the many options available also means that you have so many to check. Do you have Expected Finishes in your schedule? Did you remember to tell PM to ‘listen’ to them? Do you use external relationships? Did you remember to tell the CPM calculation mode to consider them? The settings and counter-settings are quite extensive.
I remember my boss complaining a long time ago that P3 was too complicated for the ‘average’ user to run. I told him that I liked it that way: all the more reason to pay me the ‘big bucks.’ Get your checkbook out for expert PM users (again a good thing.)
Member for
21 years 4 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Ronald,
I realized you had a tough experience with Project management (PM). Some comments that might help:
Adding activities to a project with the wizard ON, the n a WBS is required. SET wizard OFF , and you can have a project with a defined WBS.
Security set-ups : fully agree with, they are difficult for planners BUT not for an administrator. PM is an Enterprise tool, which means for me many users sharing data therefore and administrator is a MUST. May be a planner doing this role.
In PM, you always work in hours. I worked in days, no problem. Go TO Edit-User preferences. Don’t know why this very important option is placed under EDIT. Having activities in days and rates in $/Hr is not a problem when you define resources.
Lastly, your recommendation is valid, learn PM not trying to compare with P3, but I should add something: try to do same things that you have done with P3, you will be able to do it and MORE.
Cheers,
carmen
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Actually, to be absolutely correct (as you seem intent in being,) Primavera just calls the entire mess, "Primavera." So what is your point?
Member for
20 yearsRE: Primavera Project Management
Project Management is a module of Primavera Project Planner for the Enterprise 4.1 ou Primavera 5.0 (new version)
Metodology Management and Portfolio Analysis are also modules.
Regards.
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
That was not my experience. I found the core issues to be entirely different. In P3, the WBS is present but not required. In PM, you need to first figure out how to build your WBS before you can load your first schedule. I found loading schedules and reconfiguring all of the global OBSs, Resources, Activity Codes to be very difficult without training. Don’t get me started on Calendars – which are entirely different from that used in P3. Don’t forget security set-ups and minimum & maximum settings for 20 to 40 issues. In PM, you always work in hours. You can tell the program to only display days, but this causes problems sometimes when rates are computed or used.
Lastly, installation of PM is extremely difficult and will take a stand-alone user a full day to accomplish (more if you try to read the manuals first.) If you are setting-up PM to share with others, then count on a week to configure your common data server before you begin individual installations. Once you are done, you will yearn for the days of simple Btrieve databases. Data servers are much more complicated (and use more computer RAM) than Btrieve.
In the end, you will end up with a more powerful scheduling system. Not necessarily as stable or accurate as P3, but certainly with more features. I learned PM by not trying to compare it to P3, but to consider everything on its own and starting over. Good luck!
Member for
21 years 4 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
Ronald,
I was a user of P3 3.1 in March and I have changed to Primavera Project management v4.1 in no more than two weeks.
A training course will help to understand What´s new BUT the core is the same. I found a Project management excellent in terms of: inputing data, wbs , resources and so on.
Cheers,
carmenh
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Primavera Project Management
James,
You are no longer using P3 when you run Primavera Project Management. This is the enterprise version and Primavera’s newest software, once called P3e, P3e/c, Primavera, and now P5. The names may sound similar, but the workings and file structures are entirely different.
In my opinion, knowing P3 will not help you at all when working with P5. Get yourself to a training class. Grab the manuals and read. Good luck!