See what the consultant is saying is logical to a certain extend,
I am working in a residential project and it contains podiums divided into 18 areas,
So each area is independent of one another and the precast erection in these areas happen independently,
So sometimes due to logistics problems, some areas will be lagging behind the target dates,
In this case, if the roof slabs of the adjoining areas are not connected logically the slabs will be showing all unrealisic floats, i.e if sometimes the roof slab in a particular area is not completed and if we want to know how much is the float available for completing that particular slab,then the relationship between the activities play a vital role,
I meant to say, total float really depends on the relationship between the activities and on taking the schedule report you will be able to get the open end listed activities and it is ideal to clsoe all the open ends in the program which has to be submitted to the consultant,
Regards,
FMV
Member for
19 years 10 months
Member for19 years10 months
Submitted by nurhan serin on Wed, 2006-01-18 11:03
I have not wanted to use constraints, because when you use constraints P3 calculates negative total float and it is not a situation desired for me. I experienced that negative calculation and it is written in reference manual in this way (Page 41) as well.
Francis,
Can you explain how late dates all depends upon the successor activities relationship? I want to learn the logic of calculation for lates. Maybe I can arrange the lates following the successor relationships.
Gordon,
I haven’t thought that large amounts of float was a normal situation and I havent liked it at all. Now, I am learning that it is such in the planning world of primavera and I am not going to concern about it.
Primavera sometimes calculates zero float and sometimes negative and sometimes 400 days of float. (They are individual activities) I wonder what to say If my client says I do not want such floats.
Member for
20 years 3 months
Member for20 years3 months
Submitted by Gordon Blair on Wed, 2006-01-18 09:43
As I understand it, what you want to do is specify latest dates for completion of individual activities. This may be achieved by setting late finish constraints in the activities. For example, if you had a design brief that had to be out for review (for internal political reasons) on the 1st Feb, when the review period wouldnt start until mid march, you would apply a late finish constraint to that activity of 1st Feb:
Activities box
Constaints Tab
tick Late Finish button,
pick date from the calendar.
This will hold in (constrain) the late date to the date you want, even after scheduling.
I would suggest though, that there are very few reasons for doing this.
1) Political reasons which have little to do with the running of the Project.
2) A project lacking in comprehensive detail in activities and/or logic. If there is an occurence or activity or date that needs to be met within your project, it should be shown as such within your plan.
Once you have captured all of the factors driving the end dates of your project, you may well have some activities with large amounts of float, this is not something to fear, or to hide, its just the way things are.
Member for
20 years 8 months
Member for20 years9 months
Submitted by Francis Moyala… on Wed, 2006-01-18 09:40
Since P3 is making backward pass for calculating the late dates, if the must finish - constraint is not given in the project over view, the value will remain constant or uniform, when you are scheduling every day,
but when, you are giving a must finish by constraint then that date is taken for backward pass by P3 and the total float will go on decreasing every day unless the activity is not updated,
And the late dates all depends upon the activitys successor relatioship,
if the project must finish by constraint is not given, in that case if an activity is getting delayed , then also the total float will remain positive and you cant make out the exact delayed completion of the project,
Thanks,
FMV
Member for
19 years 11 months
Member for19 years11 months
Submitted by Michael Crawley on Wed, 2006-01-18 09:15
if you do not want to show the dates that the software is calculating for you. whats the point in using it. as it is just a picture you are drawing why not just use an excel spreadsheet and type in the dates you want and fill the cells with nice colours.
if you do not believe the dates that the software is giving you then calculate it manually to check it.
Member for
23 years
Member for23 years
Submitted by Steven Oliver on Wed, 2006-01-18 09:09
"Late Dates" are generated by the "Backward Pass", that P3 performs during the scheduling process.
The date specified as the "Project Completion Date" specifies which date the backward pass uses in the calculation, or if the "Project Completion Date" is not given then the finish of the last activity can determine the final date.
To constrain the completion your project to a specific date apply a finish constraint to the activity.
It is possible to artificially constrain activities to a certain Total Float, but I personally wouldnt.
Try this out on a single activity, and understand what the dates P3 is giving you are.
It is possible to constrain activities to certain levels of Total Float, personally I wouldnt, but you could.
Member for
19 years 10 months
Member for19 years10 months
Submitted by nurhan serin on Wed, 2006-01-18 08:34
As I written, lates are given by the programme and they are not my values I want to assign. I want to assign my values. Besides, the late dates what programme gives are rather bad dates. And I cannot see any logic behind it.(I mean for assigning lates).
Member for
19 years 11 months
Member for19 years11 months
Submitted by Michael Crawley on Wed, 2006-01-18 08:14
Thank you for your reply. I am not trying to change dates, but late dates or float values.
I have no problem changing early dates. I have problem with changing late dates.
They remains the same after I scheduled the activity with changes that I made. So, the total float remains the same. Because late dates cannot be changed.
It is something like that as if a determined total float value is memorized by primavera and you cannot change that value at all.
Member for
20 years
Member for20 years
Submitted by Marcio Sampaio on Wed, 2006-01-18 06:57
Member for
20 years 6 monthsRE: Floating Values
I think you need to learn Critical path method first.
find some articles about CPM.
Then make a small project with several activity e.g. 10 activities, then calculate ES EF LS LF FF TF then you will understand every thing.
LF - if you finish the activity later than LF, the whole project will be delayed
For example, a single activty project say activity A dur 10 Day ES 1May. the project contractual finish date is 20May
so for A ES is 1May , EF 10May
if A finish on 20May, it still meet the contract date of 20May
so LF for A is 20May, the TF is LF-EF =10 days.
you can add TF to all activitis by shift the project compeltion date. But for each activity the only way is to add constain
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Floating Values
Francis,
Thank you for your reply.
I spent considerably long time and much afford on this floating values subject although I am not an experienced and long timed primavera user.
Your comments has been so helpful to understand the phenomena. I am more relaxed about it now.
Sincerely,
NS
Member for
20 years 8 monthsRE: Floating Values
Nurhan,
See what the consultant is saying is logical to a certain extend,
I am working in a residential project and it contains podiums divided into 18 areas,
So each area is independent of one another and the precast erection in these areas happen independently,
So sometimes due to logistics problems, some areas will be lagging behind the target dates,
In this case, if the roof slabs of the adjoining areas are not connected logically the slabs will be showing all unrealisic floats, i.e if sometimes the roof slab in a particular area is not completed and if we want to know how much is the float available for completing that particular slab,then the relationship between the activities play a vital role,
I meant to say, total float really depends on the relationship between the activities and on taking the schedule report you will be able to get the open end listed activities and it is ideal to clsoe all the open ends in the program which has to be submitted to the consultant,
Regards,
FMV
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Floating Values
Thank you all for your very precious replies.
Steven Oliver, Francis Moyalan, Gordon Blair,
I have not wanted to use constraints, because when you use constraints P3 calculates negative total float and it is not a situation desired for me. I experienced that negative calculation and it is written in reference manual in this way (Page 41) as well.
Francis,
Can you explain how late dates all depends upon the successor activities relationship? I want to learn the logic of calculation for lates. Maybe I can arrange the lates following the successor relationships.
Gordon,
I haven’t thought that large amounts of float was a normal situation and I havent liked it at all. Now, I am learning that it is such in the planning world of primavera and I am not going to concern about it.
Primavera sometimes calculates zero float and sometimes negative and sometimes 400 days of float. (They are individual activities) I wonder what to say If my client says I do not want such floats.
Member for
20 years 3 monthsRE: Floating Values
Nuhran Serin,
As I understand it, what you want to do is specify latest dates for completion of individual activities. This may be achieved by setting late finish constraints in the activities. For example, if you had a design brief that had to be out for review (for internal political reasons) on the 1st Feb, when the review period wouldnt start until mid march, you would apply a late finish constraint to that activity of 1st Feb:
Activities box
Constaints Tab
tick Late Finish button,
pick date from the calendar.
This will hold in (constrain) the late date to the date you want, even after scheduling.
I would suggest though, that there are very few reasons for doing this.
1) Political reasons which have little to do with the running of the Project.
2) A project lacking in comprehensive detail in activities and/or logic. If there is an occurence or activity or date that needs to be met within your project, it should be shown as such within your plan.
Once you have captured all of the factors driving the end dates of your project, you may well have some activities with large amounts of float, this is not something to fear, or to hide, its just the way things are.
Member for
20 years 8 monthsRE: Floating Values
Hi Nurhan,
Stevens reply is logical for your query,
Since P3 is making backward pass for calculating the late dates, if the must finish - constraint is not given in the project over view, the value will remain constant or uniform, when you are scheduling every day,
but when, you are giving a must finish by constraint then that date is taken for backward pass by P3 and the total float will go on decreasing every day unless the activity is not updated,
And the late dates all depends upon the activitys successor relatioship,
if the project must finish by constraint is not given, in that case if an activity is getting delayed , then also the total float will remain positive and you cant make out the exact delayed completion of the project,
Thanks,
FMV
Member for
19 years 11 monthsRE: Floating Values
if you do not want to show the dates that the software is calculating for you. whats the point in using it. as it is just a picture you are drawing why not just use an excel spreadsheet and type in the dates you want and fill the cells with nice colours.
if you do not believe the dates that the software is giving you then calculate it manually to check it.
Member for
23 yearsRE: Floating Values
"Late Dates" are generated by the "Backward Pass", that P3 performs during the scheduling process.
The date specified as the "Project Completion Date" specifies which date the backward pass uses in the calculation, or if the "Project Completion Date" is not given then the finish of the last activity can determine the final date.
To constrain the completion your project to a specific date apply a finish constraint to the activity.
It is possible to artificially constrain activities to a certain Total Float, but I personally wouldnt.
Try this out on a single activity, and understand what the dates P3 is giving you are.
It is possible to constrain activities to certain levels of Total Float, personally I wouldnt, but you could.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Floating Values
As I written, lates are given by the programme and they are not my values I want to assign. I want to assign my values. Besides, the late dates what programme gives are rather bad dates. And I cannot see any logic behind it.(I mean for assigning lates).
Member for
19 years 11 monthsRE: Floating Values
why???
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Floating Values
In other words, late dates are given by programme.
I want to give late dates myself. My question is how it is possible?
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Floating Values
Marcio Eduardo
Thank you for your reply. I am not trying to change dates, but late dates or float values.
I have no problem changing early dates. I have problem with changing late dates.
They remains the same after I scheduled the activity with changes that I made. So, the total float remains the same. Because late dates cannot be changed.
It is something like that as if a determined total float value is memorized by primavera and you cannot change that value at all.
Member for
20 yearsRE: Floating Values
Nurhan Serin,
Are u trying to change the dates manually?
To modify the dates you must change relationships, lags and/or durations.
About the second question, I think it is not possible to do.
Kind regards,
Marcio Eduardo
Rio de Janeiro - Brazil