On the contrary Im working for a construction company now as a Planner/Scheduler. For quite sometime, I also worked for consultants and owner side thats why I have a balanced perspective of planning, but of course, not detrimental to the interest of the current company Im working with.
When I said anticipating weather days, I mean by getting information from weather bureau in your location so as to anticipate what might be the effect of such to the contractual completion dates for planning purposes only. Thats why I also reiterated that this issue should be mutually agreed upon by both parties before any inputs to the schedule could be made. The contractual implications should also be cleared beforehand.
In my little understanding of planning, you anticipate for something which have not happened yet.
Se
Member for
22 years 10 months
Member for22 years10 months
Submitted by Ronald Winter on Fri, 2003-10-10 12:33
I suspect that you have never represented a contractor as a Scheduler. You state, "I believe planners should anticipate weather days so as to see the effect on the contractual completion dates." Just exactly how does one go about anticipating the effects of weather in all cases?
If a project is to be complete in 100 days and you experience 99 days of weather that halts your work, should you have planned to accomplish the work in 1 day?
A contractor can only anticipate normal patterns of weather, not extreme ones. If the weather is worse than normal, the contractor should be excused for the extra days.
Some Owners want to only pay for the weather days actually experienced. They do this by agreeing to delay the required completion time by one day for every weather day experienced. In this manner, the contractor should then plan on no days of weather in the bid process.
As I have understood it, there are two situations here. One, preparing the schedule anticipating wet/hot days and the other one is updating the schedule using the actual wet/hot days.
On the first one, I believe planners should anticipate weather days so as to see the effect on the contractual completion dates. But this does not give the contractor the right to claim for extension of time because at the time he bidded for the project, it is assumed that the contractor knows that project would be affected by seasonal weather. Thus, the issue should be first mutually agreed upon by both parties before any input to the schedule should be made.
As the project progress, it is a good practice to update the planned weather days with the actual weather days which, eventually can be used among others to analyze time extension and other related claim by the contractor if there is any.
Regards to all.
Se
Member for
22 years 3 months
Member for22 years3 months
Submitted by Morteza Jafari on Wed, 2003-10-08 07:52
We are using a WOW (Waite On Weather )factor in time estimation in our project, It is different in months of year, also we have made a table for different area of country , this table is very useful and it help us especially in offshore works.
Member for
22 years 10 months
Member for22 years10 months
Submitted by Ronald Winter on Tue, 2003-10-07 19:25
There is only one current, required completion date. If the specifications state that you must reserve a set number of days (or the statistical average of days over the course of the project,) then once you have reduced the “Project Raindays” activity to zero duration, then every weather day after this is excusable and should extend the required completion date by that amount.
Member for
22 years 3 months
Member for22 years4 months
Submitted by Kelly Randolph on Tue, 2003-10-07 18:40
I like your idea of having one weather day at the end of the project and reducing the duration each month. You state that if more weather days occured than were alloted then to adjust the required completion date. Would that be the required completion date of project before or after weather days? Or adjusting the duration of some activities?
1. I discuss inclement weather and not wet weather, as it could be too hot, too wet or too cold, etc.
2. Inclement weather is often seasonal. On some projects I have worked on we have allowed for wet weather in the winter and hot weather in the summer. The wet weather affects earthworks and other operations but not those under cover but hot weather affects a different set of activities.
3. When the inclement weather is identified at as a task at the end of a project then on a long project, say a year or more, the activities may not necessarily be scheduled in the correct time period. This for example could result in earthworks appearing in the wet period. Therefore assigning dates in the calendar for inclement weather in the calendar leads to a schedule with the dates in a more realistic timeframe.
3. When a project has some work that is affected by inclement weather and some work that is not and when the inclement weather is seasonal, then it becomes even more important to adjust the inclement weather calendar on activities that may be affected by inclement weather. The critical path may drastically change depending on the nature of the project and the relationship between the activities affected by inclement weather and those that are not.
4. It is important to document outside the schedule the calendars and which days is inclement weather, as I have not found any software that allows notes to be assigned to calendar dates.
5. As the project progresses I keep a copy of the Baseline and edit the Baseline schedule substituting planned inclement lost time with actual inclement lost time to calculate the new contract finish date. I also add other changes as activities and reschedule to provide an updated schedule finish date.
My question here is should the CPM Schedule include non-work periods in the project calendar for anticipated inclement weather or should the schedule just stand on its own legs with the understanding that the contractor anticipates up to 24 inclement weather delays?
It seems that by placing these potential delays into the work calendar, I am taking way from the integrity of the schedule.
Member for
22 years 10 months
Member for22 years10 months
Submitted by Ronald Winter on Tue, 2003-02-25 12:12
I have seen one method of ‘reserving’ weather days implemented many times successfully. Usually, not just the total number of expected weather days (in this case 24) but also a monthly schedule of expected weather days is published in the specifications (November: 2 days, December: 5 days, January: 6 days, etc.)
The person creating the schedule adds an activity “Planned Weather Days” at the end of the schedule between a milestone called “End of Project Before Weather” and Another milestone called “End Of Project After Weather Days.” Then you assign an Original Duration of 24 (in this case.)
When you status the schedule as of the 1st of December, you reduce the remaining duration of “Planned Weather Days” by the amount set aside for November (In this case, from 24 to 22 days.) You make this change regardless of how many weather days you actually had. If there were more weather days than planned for, you adjust the Required Completion Date according to the amount of delay experienced by the weather after the reserved amount has been deducted.
On the 1st of January, you reduce the Remaining Duration of “Planned Weather Days” by the amount reserved for December (in this case from 22 to 17 days.) You proceed like this until “Planned Weather Days” has a remaining duration of 0.
As to the question of ‘letting’ the contractor take a whole month off – you can’t stop him. If for any reason the contractor is ahead of schedule, they may elect to ‘use’ the float. You didn’t hire the contractor to work for you by the hour. You only paid him to complete a project within the time limit specified.
You don’t have to really worry on this account; it doesn’t make economic sense for the contractor to leave for a month. They still have to pay their bills on the trailer rent, security control, etc. They have monthly salaries to pay. Their bonding power is still tied-up on the current project so they can’t go after another. It costs money to sit still and the contractor is in business to make money. It is in the contractor’s interest to finish a project ahead of schedule.
It is a good way to identify activities that dependent on the weather condition. In order to have an assessement on the extend of the delay when using P3 is to use the baseline programme and changed the agreed date affected by the weather to the non-working date and schedule the programme to see the impacts of the delay. For the first 24 days the contractor have to mitigate the delay because of the contract condition. However, once the 24 days passed, the delay become visible with the baseline programme.
Member for
24 years 5 monthsRE: Weather Delays
Hi Ronald,
On the contrary Im working for a construction company now as a Planner/Scheduler. For quite sometime, I also worked for consultants and owner side thats why I have a balanced perspective of planning, but of course, not detrimental to the interest of the current company Im working with.
When I said anticipating weather days, I mean by getting information from weather bureau in your location so as to anticipate what might be the effect of such to the contractual completion dates for planning purposes only. Thats why I also reiterated that this issue should be mutually agreed upon by both parties before any inputs to the schedule could be made. The contractual implications should also be cleared beforehand.
In my little understanding of planning, you anticipate for something which have not happened yet.
Se
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Weather Delays
I suspect that you have never represented a contractor as a Scheduler. You state, "I believe planners should anticipate weather days so as to see the effect on the contractual completion dates." Just exactly how does one go about anticipating the effects of weather in all cases?
If a project is to be complete in 100 days and you experience 99 days of weather that halts your work, should you have planned to accomplish the work in 1 day?
A contractor can only anticipate normal patterns of weather, not extreme ones. If the weather is worse than normal, the contractor should be excused for the extra days.
Some Owners want to only pay for the weather days actually experienced. They do this by agreeing to delay the required completion time by one day for every weather day experienced. In this manner, the contractor should then plan on no days of weather in the bid process.
Member for
24 years 5 monthsRE: Weather Delays
Hi guys,
As I have understood it, there are two situations here. One, preparing the schedule anticipating wet/hot days and the other one is updating the schedule using the actual wet/hot days.
On the first one, I believe planners should anticipate weather days so as to see the effect on the contractual completion dates. But this does not give the contractor the right to claim for extension of time because at the time he bidded for the project, it is assumed that the contractor knows that project would be affected by seasonal weather. Thus, the issue should be first mutually agreed upon by both parties before any input to the schedule should be made.
As the project progress, it is a good practice to update the planned weather days with the actual weather days which, eventually can be used among others to analyze time extension and other related claim by the contractor if there is any.
Regards to all.
Se
Member for
22 years 3 monthsRE: Weather Delays
We are using a WOW (Waite On Weather )factor in time estimation in our project, It is different in months of year, also we have made a table for different area of country , this table is very useful and it help us especially in offshore works.
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Weather Delays
Kelly,
There is only one current, required completion date. If the specifications state that you must reserve a set number of days (or the statistical average of days over the course of the project,) then once you have reduced the “Project Raindays” activity to zero duration, then every weather day after this is excusable and should extend the required completion date by that amount.
Member for
22 years 3 monthsRE: Weather Delays
Ronald,
I like your idea of having one weather day at the end of the project and reducing the duration each month. You state that if more weather days occured than were alloted then to adjust the required completion date. Would that be the required completion date of project before or after weather days? Or adjusting the duration of some activities?
Member for
24 years 6 monthsRE: Weather Delays
There are a couple of issues here.
1. I discuss inclement weather and not wet weather, as it could be too hot, too wet or too cold, etc.
2. Inclement weather is often seasonal. On some projects I have worked on we have allowed for wet weather in the winter and hot weather in the summer. The wet weather affects earthworks and other operations but not those under cover but hot weather affects a different set of activities.
3. When the inclement weather is identified at as a task at the end of a project then on a long project, say a year or more, the activities may not necessarily be scheduled in the correct time period. This for example could result in earthworks appearing in the wet period. Therefore assigning dates in the calendar for inclement weather in the calendar leads to a schedule with the dates in a more realistic timeframe.
3. When a project has some work that is affected by inclement weather and some work that is not and when the inclement weather is seasonal, then it becomes even more important to adjust the inclement weather calendar on activities that may be affected by inclement weather. The critical path may drastically change depending on the nature of the project and the relationship between the activities affected by inclement weather and those that are not.
4. It is important to document outside the schedule the calendars and which days is inclement weather, as I have not found any software that allows notes to be assigned to calendar dates.
5. As the project progresses I keep a copy of the Baseline and edit the Baseline schedule substituting planned inclement lost time with actual inclement lost time to calculate the new contract finish date. I also add other changes as activities and reschedule to provide an updated schedule finish date.
Regards
Paul E Harris
www.eh.com.au
Member for
16 years 9 monthsRE: Weather Delays
Ronald,
My question here is should the CPM Schedule include non-work periods in the project calendar for anticipated inclement weather or should the schedule just stand on its own legs with the understanding that the contractor anticipates up to 24 inclement weather delays?
It seems that by placing these potential delays into the work calendar, I am taking way from the integrity of the schedule.
Member for
22 years 10 monthsRE: Weather Delays
I have seen one method of ‘reserving’ weather days implemented many times successfully. Usually, not just the total number of expected weather days (in this case 24) but also a monthly schedule of expected weather days is published in the specifications (November: 2 days, December: 5 days, January: 6 days, etc.)
The person creating the schedule adds an activity “Planned Weather Days” at the end of the schedule between a milestone called “End of Project Before Weather” and Another milestone called “End Of Project After Weather Days.” Then you assign an Original Duration of 24 (in this case.)
When you status the schedule as of the 1st of December, you reduce the remaining duration of “Planned Weather Days” by the amount set aside for November (In this case, from 24 to 22 days.) You make this change regardless of how many weather days you actually had. If there were more weather days than planned for, you adjust the Required Completion Date according to the amount of delay experienced by the weather after the reserved amount has been deducted.
On the 1st of January, you reduce the Remaining Duration of “Planned Weather Days” by the amount reserved for December (in this case from 22 to 17 days.) You proceed like this until “Planned Weather Days” has a remaining duration of 0.
As to the question of ‘letting’ the contractor take a whole month off – you can’t stop him. If for any reason the contractor is ahead of schedule, they may elect to ‘use’ the float. You didn’t hire the contractor to work for you by the hour. You only paid him to complete a project within the time limit specified.
You don’t have to really worry on this account; it doesn’t make economic sense for the contractor to leave for a month. They still have to pay their bills on the trailer rent, security control, etc. They have monthly salaries to pay. Their bonding power is still tied-up on the current project so they can’t go after another. It costs money to sit still and the contractor is in business to make money. It is in the contractor’s interest to finish a project ahead of schedule.
Member for
16 years 9 monthsRE: Weather Delays
It is a good way to identify activities that dependent on the weather condition. In order to have an assessement on the extend of the delay when using P3 is to use the baseline programme and changed the agreed date affected by the weather to the non-working date and schedule the programme to see the impacts of the delay. For the first 24 days the contractor have to mitigate the delay because of the contract condition. However, once the 24 days passed, the delay become visible with the baseline programme.