Spider has ton of features. I must say it is not that reasy to learn, to put it mildly
I think absence or proper video instructions in English really holds it from taking over the world.
My series of Spider Project. Cool features is really intended to show only remarkable features, not to be a comprehensive step by step guide (I don't have that knowledge yet)
Member for
15 years 8 months
Member for15 years8 months
Submitted by Marcus Possi on Mon, 2019-12-02 23:02
(11) About 150h Spider Project Course Project Management Risk Analisys MC and 3 Scenarios (just support) -here
Being elaborated for 2020.
(12) Mont Carlo for Project Management
(12) 3 Scenario for Project Management
by the way,
this year is completing 10 years of our "Spider Project - Top of Mind" effort.
Here in Brazil if you question a PM about PM tools, they will certain remind Spider Project, not only the popular application MSProject, to solve problems.
Member for
13 years 2 months
Member for13 years2 months
Submitted by bogdanleonte on Mon, 2019-12-02 13:53
I finally found some time for what I wanted to do long ago - to put some videos on youtube about Spider Project. Nowdays people search most of the information is vedeo format. I myself struggle to understand things if I can't find information on yourtube
If at the planning stage it was not assumed that Subcontractor 2 may replace Subcontractor 1 at point C, it will be necessary to replace resource assignments.
If such possibility was considered then it makes sense to assign Skills that include resources of both Subcontractor 1 and Subcontractor 2 and give resources of Subcontractor 1 higher priority. If Subcontractor 2 will be selected for doing this job it is sufficient to change resource priorities.
One more solution is creating conditional network. Spider Project has special activities that have zero duration and two states Yes or No. This activity precedes to two network branches. If condition of Switch is Yes one branch will be selected (and other ignored), if No then another. States of the Switch activity may be selected manually or basing on some user defined rule.
In your case it is reasonable to create Switch activity that precedes to start of point C execution and create two branches – one if the job will be done by Subcontractor 1 and second if point C will be done by Subcontractor 2. These branches may include different activities. Then you may set the rule like If the forecast of completing point B by Subcontractor 1 is later than certain date Switch will automatically select the state that means that point C will be done by Subcontractor 2.
It looks like using Switch activity is the best method in your case.
"Defining project resources specify if they belong to special subcontractors or can be used by many of them. Spider Project will optimize project schedule taking this into account."
Expanding on my question;
Subcontractor 1 has been scoped with A, B and C, Subcontractor 2 with D, E, F.
Consider both have 'special resources' assigned to these activities/scope, and initially all is ok. At some point 'B' is delayed which opens up an opportunity for Subcontractor 2 to complete 'C' as well his scoped 'D, E, F' without affecting himself.
Would Spider maintain levelling with 'special subcontractor resource' or consider breaking this if the opportunity arises as per the above example?
"In this case Spider Project will select who will do the work basing on resource availability, user defined priorities and user defined criteria"
Or is my answer in the above quote and I'm just missing it..
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Mon, 2018-12-24 10:36
Defining project resources specify if they belong to special subcontractors or can be used by many of them. Spider Project will optimize project schedule taking this into account.
Another case: when subcontractors use the same resource but it does not make sense to move it from one subcontractor to another until certain work was done (due to the distance or other reasons). This is modeled using spatial resources. In particular case when two or more subcontractors work in the one place they can share common space and resource will be used by all of them in the optimized schedule.
Skill means that resources belonging ti Skill can do the same work though with different productivity. You may create skill that includes resources of different subcontractors. In this case Spider Project will select who will do the work basing on resource availability, user defined priorities and user defined criteria (minimal cost, largest productivity or something else).
Apologies if reviving this thread upsets a few people but I figured it's the best place to ask.
I don't know too much about Spider other than postings from Rafael and Vladimir - bear this in mind when reading the question below.
I take it that Spider can resource level based on the selected scope a subcontractor is given throughout a project and can adhere to this rule throughout the project if modelled so. Can Spider show some optimization by the use of transferring resource from one subcontractor resource to another? (I understand that some will say humans should do this, but I'm curious if Spider could flag this)
I'm guessing the answer may be in skills (?)
Member for
24 years 9 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Raphael M. Dua on Thu, 2009-12-24 00:32
You are making an assumption that ALL portfolio projects used the corporate resources
Well here in Micro Planner land I am running a whole range of projects for ONE client (who is also using P3, P6, OPP, MSP) all the results from each project are shunted up to the corporate Financial System via a product called COBRA, which takes the results from each of the project management software packages and up loads it into FMIS (which is a massive Government based accounting and payment and all things to all men product)- I assume that you use XML methodologies which is how we do it
None of my projects ever uses any body from another projects resources. Each Project, whilst part of the Portfolio, is not necessarily resource dependent upon another.
If we do have related resource projects then obviously they are run in a single Model using one or another of the software packages which are available.
We use a WBS of fragnets as we did back in 1956-60 for the Polaris project for our COBRA upload
Hope that makes things clear
Raf
Member for
24 years 9 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Raphael M. Dua on Thu, 2009-12-24 00:23
I have just placed a two week lag on the link between my Task and end and the Hammock has correctly calculated the duration as I would expect from Micro Planner X-Pert
Oh dear Oh Dear
Never ever be as dogmatic to say No other software does it
Keep telling you I was the pioneer to much of the computations and facilities which people like Vlad have been able to find on the public and other domains and use
in their products
I know most of them, especially in the past twenty years havent a clue where they got the knowledge from, but when they ask, I have .. so far ... dragged out my OLD OLD OLD workings from back as far as 1957 and Lo and behold, we were doing what ever back them
It is Christmas, you should be eating Christmas pie not H ..... pie
I am back to work again
Such fun :-)
Raf
Member for
24 years 9 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Raphael M. Dua on Thu, 2009-12-24 00:13
You can download the first version from the following link. I opted to cost load directly on the activity without use of resources, using cost components and cost centers.
The ball is on my side of the court, remember is holiday season, 73deg F/ 22.77 C and the sun is shining so today I will take some spare time, we have some US relatives escaping from their frigid winter.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-12-22 16:04
Not only will pay a few per completed jobs/task/activities but others will be paid on a regular basis say next week for payroll, next 30 days for invoices and receive BOQ payments 60 days after invoicing prior month during first week of the following month.
Of course I do not pretend exact granularity but an approximation good enough to make a computation for NPV that is close enough, a computation that will tell me months in green and months in red, I don’t think I need to model exact payment day. Anyway it is never going to be exactly on target especially the further away from today.
I am starting to get hooked not only into BOQ, but I am also thinking ahead when I might start using NPV available in Spider Project. As far as I remember you also mentioned IIR, internal rate of return, a computation that at times yields two values, one is the solution and the other is not, and even “modified” IRR so it is more than that. But "that", modeling of BOQ is going to be a common issue.
Hope you understand if others at home are to follow me it cannot be that complicated, otherwise they will do their cash flow analysis using Excel, even when is kind of static, not as dynamic when modeling into Spider Project.
Here on average, the Water Authority pays 3 to 6 months after invoicing, meanwhile you have to pay US equipment suppliers in advance to manufacturing. Banks and Sureties know and expect your cash flow shows this. Spider Project table reports can show the required details, just give me ease of use with regard to the offset between the resources (and activities) to cash flow.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2011-06-21 12:16
I tried those sample projects earlier. Spider Project j301_1 instance default duration is 43 days (optimal).
I will look at your method and we will discuss this matter further (not in this forum). There are certain requirements to any algorithms that we use for project, program, portfolio scheduling. These requirements include:
- Multiple dependencies between the same activities that link any point of preceding activity with any point of succeding activity with lags that can be positive and negative and measured in time of quantity units,
- Resources, activities, lags may have own unique calendars,
- If skills are assigned the scheduling engine shall select and assign the resources that have necessary skills basing on their availabilities and user defined criteria,
- Activity durations may be calculated basing on quantities of work to be done and assigned resource productivities, if skills were assigned the duration is not known before project scheduling,
- Resource assignments may be partial and variable (when resource workloads or quantities may change during activity execution),
- Not only renewable but also consumable resources shall be considered,
- Project financing shall be considered as one of many schedule constraints,
- Etc. (there are many other requirements that need to be followed).
Sample projects in both production and project sets are too simple in structure though hard for finding optimal solution. The scheduling algorithm shall take into consideration all possible constraints and conditions.
Production scheduling may have different requirements like taking into account set-up durations.
In any case a lot of work is ahead to make an algorithm practical.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-12-22 13:49
I just do not understand how to manage project portfolio and organization resources if some project managers use one PM software and some renegades decided to use another. In the portfolio all projects are interdependent when use common resources even if their activities are not linked.
So it is impossible to plan one project ignoring others.
How did you solve this problem?
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-12-22 13:38
You pay people salaries from their first to their last job in the project. You dont know when these jobs will happen but know for what jobs you will pay.
The same with machines - you will pay from the start of their usage to the end of their usage.
And the payments do not depend on the actual work that they do.
Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Tue, 2009-12-22 13:32
In order to set the hammock you need to know in advance which activities or portion of each is to be applied on each payment on your always changing activity dates prediction.
I am looking for the software to estimate the cash flow without telling the specific activities that will fall within each particular period.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-12-22 12:48
we always create separate activities for payments.
If it is regular (once in a week for an example) then an activity may have special calendar/week like one work hour on Monday where payments are actually done. This activity may be set as hammock from the start to the finish of some set of works and you define cost per hour as planned payments per week. Actual payments may differ.
If you are paid for some result with 30 days lag then it is an activity with zero duration but certain cost.
Usually all payments activities in one of the structures belong to the same phase.
It is not necessary to show payment activities in all structures. They may be hidden and will not appear on the reports in one WBS but will be seen and considered in calculations in another WBS.
We suggest to create separate cost components for payments. The cost of one unit for payment components shall be negative.
In this case you will get separate reports on expenses, payments and cash flows, you will know who owns to whom and what amounts.
As expenses, payments (and incomes) may consist of components (payments for materials, payments to contractors, payments for machines, etc.).
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-12-22 12:14
I believe I can handle all my physical resources the way you suggest, I forgot about strong links, functionality that was not available in Primavera SureTrak. Please understand I am still not wired to think on it as an available tool for my schedules, it is not available everywhere on CPM literature. Don’t be surprised if you have to remind me of it a few several times again.
The remaining issue is about modeling cash flow in all your activities where cash income and expense payments will lag activity execution. Here I don’t want to create a new activity for every one impacting BOQ modeling for income and maybe another one for modeling actual payments or expenses. Here we pay payroll on a weekly basis, invoices on 30 days after receipt and with luck get our BOQ payment 30 to 60 days after activity execution in private jobs, about Government jobs you would be surprised how much latter we get paid, “prompt payment” is a fantasy here.
Probably a SS/FS lag and duration (if you want it to be different) can be defined at cost assigments as not to mess with resource allocations but making costs to follow resource allocation dates within the rule. In this way for example you can model payment 2 weeks after an activity finishes. Of course Earned Value will have o lag and will follow activity duration.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2009-12-22 08:40
We teach our customers than an activity shall be executed by some resource team from the beginning to the end. If the planned`number of necessary resources is different at different parts of activity then divide it - it is not the same work.
But we permit to assign uncertain number of resources, like between 3 and 5. If three are available then an activity can start, if others will become available before activity finish they can join and accelerate activity performance.
If you will suggest an example where it can be useful we will add this function. Until then create two activities with FS strong link.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Tue, 2009-12-22 07:16
Under Suretrak, for my non leveling resources it is not uncommon for me to assign a resource lag and resource duration different from activity duration. This I use when I want to model cash flow (costs and income).
How you model this within Spider Project and how it works under resource leveling?
By the way I dont know how it would work under SureTrak resource leveling.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Fri, 2009-12-18 10:04
you wrote: At that company there was also MS Project for those that wanted to use a MS product.
Does it mean that "that company" had no corporate project management system? If PMs select any software they want to use and use them as they want, projects do not belong to the corporate portfolio, etc. the corporate system could not function.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
14 years 4 months
Member for14 years5 months
Submitted by George Mejtsky on Tue, 2011-06-21 07:30
First, I must apologize for my misunderstanding of your answer. I do not have a deep knowledge of project scheduling, and mainly, I do not know how professional PM software like Spider works. By now I think I understand your answer. Anyway, thanks for your detailed response to my question.
Vladimir, can you take a look at my software. I developed an optimization method called sweep algorithm. The method is based on discrete event simulation, and it can solve resource-constrained project scheduling problems. I tested the method by developing software, called Sweeper, and solving the job shop scheduling benchmarks with very good results. Sweeper can match the Spider’s results within 1-2 seconds, and as its calculation continues, it finds shorter and shorter schedules.
You can evaluate the method and software, and if you like it we can develop software, based on the method, which would solve your real-world project scheduling problems. Such software can be included in Spider. It would be a good complement to Spider’s other optimization software. As Rafael said (6-13-2011): “If there are other algorithms that should be added because they are better under certain circumstances, why not adding these options. I have no problem with having many algorithm options, prioritization is what confuses me.”
The read_me file has instructions for downloading, installing, and running Sweeper.exe. It also has links to my conference papers about the method and benchmark testing.
Can you take a look at Sweeper also? I am interested in your thoughts. Perhaps, you will even revamp Sweeper to your specs as local mechanics in San Juan fixed the Obama’s vehicle.
Best Regards,
George
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Fri, 2009-12-18 06:33
Yes now I am clear. I was confused when you referred to “we”, I interpreted it as to be your actual coworkers at MPI, I could not understand why another software option if working at MPI.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Thu, 2009-12-17 16:33
I could not find your info under PP directory search but found it at MPI site.
In your posting 251 you wrote, “In my industrial experience we used Micro Planner X-Pert as the selected planning software for over twenty years.... The Micro Planner X-Pert software tool we used was excellent, ...”
Do you have the option to select other vendors scheduling software at Micro Planning to develop your own scheduling software, if so which?
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Thu, 2009-12-17 16:26
I really hope to learn something new or that something useful is missed in Spider Project besides simulating human behavior. And questions like I need to model this and dont know if it is possible will be appreciated.
If you want to edit link properties just draw this link once more (and you will see link properties) or open activity properties as you suggested. Our projects usually include too many links crossing the screen. That is why we selected other ways.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Thu, 2009-12-17 15:55
Isn’t it a valid question, remember we are confined to this posting? Does it means we will be forced to a single question, a single thread forever?
I have no other place to go and ask questions about Spider. Please be patient maybe, eventually Spider will have its place and this monstruous topic will be thing of the past, and issues will be easier to follow. Mike gave us hope as well as other PP moderators, is just that it takes time. For the moment we were asked to keep here and limit our reference to Spider on other topics.
About your question on not being able to edit a single relationship by clicking on my current graphic view I am not experiencing this issue, if you refer to clicking on the bars. Or do you refer to clicking on a bar and moving the cursor to another bar to create a new link? This you can also do.
Some fields are locked in your activity pane, I suspect to protect the traceability of updates and integrity of the data, same at other screens, is this your issue?
Mike,
Can we create other topics specific on Spider Project? Under which category?
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
16 years 5 months
Member for16 years5 months
Submitted by Carlos Arana on Thu, 2009-12-17 15:21
Cmon, people, were losing scope here. Lets challenge Spider! In giving challenges to Spider we give Vladimir the oportunity of improve Spider Project. Hes asking for challenges, hes not asking how much are your projects worth, hes not asking "What can Spider Do that your Tool cant?", hes asking "What can YOUR tool do that Spider cant?" or, also, "What cant YOUR tool do that youd wish it can?"
The goal should be defeat Spider with something it cant bear, "functionality that is useful but is not supported by the packages that you use". Something that requires workarounds.
Sure, Spider cant model human behavior so please dont come here to bluff that you can manage with eyes closed and your hands tied in the back. Can you? Then make a topic on how to do it.
Heres my question for Spider:
Why cant I edit a single relationship by clicking it in my current graphic view? Why must I go to the activity properties and find the link between all activity links?.
Im one voice more claiming for a Spider category in Planning Planet. I hope Mike hears us.
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Thu, 2009-12-17 15:03
“You said: "Other software, I don’t know Micro Planner X-Pert, do not level resources based on the quantity because such data doesn’t exist.”
This was Vladimir, this is a kind of argument of a software developer that know better than I do. I am an end user who is starting to appreciate good resource leveling as my prior experience with Primavera SureTrak was no good at all. As a matter of fact most of these years I was using soft relationships to force the software to solve in this way resource constraining issues and then verified resource loading vs. availability without running resource leveling at all.
My projects rarely go over 600 activities, 30% procurement, they rarely go over 30$M US but they need all the functionality of advanced CPM software.
I believe there is a high possibility MP-X has a superb engine. If so this will confirm my argument, not all resource leveling algorithms are equal and this is a relevant functionality that differentiates the software. By the way Spider keeps several algorithms for your choice as these yields different results, one of them looks for a solution set that yields minimum job duration within your constraints but it might happen you prefer other solution, or that under certain circumstances one yields better results than the other.
Thanks for your contribution, many of your suggestions can be adapted to other software if need be, also I am sure many MP-X users appreciate it also. I hope you continue posting in PP about MP-X here and even in threads of your own, these will be enlightening.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Thu, 2009-12-17 14:28
“Variable quantity and workload”. I noted this but not yet there, your experience will be of great help.
If you noted on one of my prior posting about synchronization of update among several versions I called it as easy as 1,2,3 or a piece of cake so about probability and trends I will give it a try and maybe ask for your help. Perhaps it looks like much work but at a click of the mouse, the computer got to work and multitask also.
About norms, are you referring to reference books? If so, not yet there also.
About multitasking you should know that for 30 years I worked at the construction site, first as project engineer then as project manager, we did not multitasked but mega-tasked or giga-tasked.
But it also happens with equipment, a tower crane would be assigned several jobs at the same time, at times would be handling rebar materials, then gang forms, then a few other things.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Thu, 2009-12-17 13:44
1) in Spider Project work load and productivity are kept separate and there is no need to use one to mimic the other as these parameters can be set up individually per activity assigment, keeping the interpretation simple and both available at the same time.
Yes, you are right. But I want to bring your attention to the ability to set quantities and workloads separately.
Most packages cannot do it. The users can define only total workload. As the result the workload of 200% may mean 2 resource units with 100% workload, 4 resource units with 50% workload, 5 resource units with 40% workload, etc. You just cannot specify the real needs.
2) in Spider Project the priority field is also independent per activity assignment and that it can provide me with the rule for the software to make the appropriate decision for hundreds of activities every time I run the schedule.
Again you are right. The assignment priority defines the rules for resource selection in skill scheduling. Usually the schedules managed with Spider Project consist of thousands activities.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
20 years 7 months
Member for20 years7 months
Submitted by Augustin Purnus on Thu, 2009-12-17 13:37
You can work with the default options at the Resource Assignment level, but if you have information and want to model better the way project will be run, than you can use a specific workload and productivity. The productivity together with the resource quantity and Volume of Activity will allow calculating the activity duration during scheduling.
The estimation we made for activity duration based usually on the same info will be avoid. But using productivity means to have some recorded history. In the Eastern part of Europe we have work norms (or corporate norms) with this kind of information. It helps you not only to easily estimate the project cost for tender purpose (it is a huge database), but also to plan and schedule construction and to monitor and control it.
The priority will be used to fine tune the schedule, or to define some important resources over others.
But, what is in my opinion an important option, is “Variable quantity and workload”. It will allow to model multi-tasking phenomena which is the reality.
Any person involved in a project may perform in a certain day (or time interval) several activities. Other software, I don’t know Micro Planner X-Pert, do not level resources based on the quantity because such data doesn’t exist. Even Critical Chain suggests to avoid multi-tasking. But this is in the nature of how we work.
Using this option will give you a shorter duration of the project after resource constrained scheduling. Try it with two or three resources and activities and compare the results with what will give you SureTrak or MSP.
Best regards,
Augustin
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Sat, 2011-06-18 11:09
Spider Project shall produce certain schedules with the same sets of initial data and the same methods chosen. It is project management requirement. If the Contractor submits some schedule to the Client both shall be sure that if anybody will run the scheduling again the result will be the same. So we could not afford anything uncertain (like time of the scheduling and the number of iterations). There are other reasons like the need for project trend analysis.
So we can create additional steps for resource constrained scheduling (now there are Standard, Advanced, Optimization, Optimization Plus levels) but cannot afford any uncertainty in the way the schedule is calculated. We already slightly improved Optimization Plus in yesterday release.
And as I wrote earlier the sample projects in the set were specially created to be hard and they are especially hard for Spider because our approach to iterative improvement uses WBS, the points where paths are merged. Your examples remind the portfolio scheduling but for this task optimization does not mean the shortest duration.
For really large projects with complex resource assignments (skills, partial assignments, conditions on continious work, resource production and consumption, etc.) Spider scheduling may take hours. So algorithms that find the best result for the benchmark schedules taking minutes of calculation could not be used at all in the real life.
I will try other samples later or will ask somebody in our office to do it. For me it is not easy to find the time for entering data.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Thu, 2009-12-17 12:50
Thanks for your prompt reply, I used Micro Planner Manager for the Mac before and loved it.
Vladimir,
I kind of prefer the software to look at the options and make the decision; I am not to ask the PM for his preferences on every run especially on jobs with hundreds of activities, I prefer him to tell me the assignment priorities when preparing the model for the first time.
As you know I might be proficient with Primavera SureTrak that lacks the functionality for skills, crews and a few others Micro Planner and Spider have. As a rookie at these functionalities within Spider Project I know we have at the resource assignment tab the following options among many others, workload, productivity and priority.
Please tell me if I am correct with the following statements;
1) in Spider Project work load and productivity are kept separate and there is no need to use one to mimic the other as these parameters can be set up individually per activity assigment, keeping the interpretation simple and both available at the same time.
2) in Spider Project the priority field is also independent per activity assignment and that it can provide me with the rule for the software to make the appropriate decision for hundreds of activities every time I run the schedule. Of course a schedule is dynamic and preferences can be adjusted on an exception basis if the PM finds it appropriate.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 months
Member for21 years8 months
Submitted by Rafael Davila on Thu, 2009-12-17 08:14
Because the main theme of this topic is to challenge Spider and it does provides for different resources to be assigned the same skills with different productivities I would like to know how Micro Planner X-pert handles this issue. For example you have available one C+++ expert engineer that can code 1.5 times as fast as 2 rookies, how you take this into consideration within MP-X.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Thu, 2009-12-17 07:28
thank you for describing the way you use Micro Planner X-Pert.
I think that everybody agree that any software is the tool and the goal of any software developer is to suggest the proper tool to people who will use their product.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Thu, 2009-12-17 06:19
WBS defines what shall be done and tasks define how.
To do the tasks you need resources. So the tasks define resource requirements and these requirements include labor, machines, materials, equipment.
Defining logical links, assigning resources, defining task durations or volumes of work to be done and assigned resource productivities you can calculate the schedule that does not consider resource limitations. If the dates are not proper you can play What If first time changing links, resource assignments, calendars, or the scope (WBS).
If the schedule with unlimited resources looks good enough you shall define what resources you have and what restrictions you have.
Basing on resource availability and restrictions you can calculate project resource constrained schedule. Once again you may find that the delays are too large and the schedule needs improvement. This is the time for the second What If session. Now you play with resource availability, assignments, calendars and if the results are poor return to the step 1, reconsidering activity links and project scope.
The next step includes supply and financing analysis. If material and cost requirements could not be met the schedule shall be adjusted and once more What IF session be played.
Resources are consumable (materials and equipment) and renewable (labor, machines). WBS phases describe deliverables, tasks describe actions.
Time may be constrained, duration depends on tasks and resources.
I wrote earlier that assigning tasks to resources is more complicated than assigning resources to tasks (the result is the same?). It is easier to create and to assign resource crew than to remember all resources in the crew and to assign the same tasks to all of them.
"No Resources - No valid Schedule" (by Glenwright)
What if you reverse it?
No Schedule - No valid Resources!
Which one do you define first? The Tasks or the Resources?
For me, resources is a matter of options, but you will always define the tasks first and not the resources - I mean in scheduling.
So if you dont have enough or available resources at a certain time, you still can wait for that time to come, but that doesnt mean that your schedule (of tasks) becomes invalid (maybe invalid to show only the earliest possible time).
Member for
17 years 9 monthsVladimir,Spider has ton of
Vladimir,
Spider has ton of features. I must say it is not that reasy to learn, to put it mildly
I think absence or proper video instructions in English really holds it from taking over the world.
My series of Spider Project. Cool features is really intended to show only remarkable features, not to be a comprehensive step by step guide (I don't have that knowledge yet)
Member for
15 years 8 monthsVladimir - excelent
Vladimir - excelent idea.
video - theme - language - duration
Videos ... Yes there is. (in Portuguese)
Every course we have here, due to our methodology, the online tutor creates a short video to make some comments about students exercises.
So, we have some playlists for our classes, and others for "corrections"
Here some of them.
(1) About Spider Project WEB-PI Spider Project WEB.PI
(2) Abou exercises SpU - revisão 2019
(3) About a private Spider Projectcourse Spider Project CONAGP
(4) About a complete Spider Course 2017 - without risk analysis Spider SpP - 2017
(5) About a complete Spider Course 2010/2012 - without risk analysis Spider SpP - Curso Original - 2010/2013
(6) About a complete Spider Course 2017HD SpU - em alta resolução 2017
(7) About Spider Project Cost course Spider Project - Custos
(8) About Spider Project Cost Composition Course Spider Project -Composição de Custos
(9) About Spider Project Course CPM only Spider Project - CPM
(10) About Spider Project Support Assessoria Spider Project
(11) About 150h Spider Project Course Project Management Risk Analisys MC and 3 Scenarios (just support) -here
Being elaborated for 2020.
(12) Mont Carlo for Project Management
(12) 3 Scenario for Project Management
by the way,
this year is completing 10 years of our "Spider Project - Top of Mind" effort.
Here in Brazil if you question a PM about PM tools, they will certain remind Spider Project, not only the popular application MSProject, to solve problems.
Member for
13 years 2 monthsThere is also a channel for
There is also a channel for the Romanian branch.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5ccl8-T9tlOJ_Cl9eXKqdw
Where Spider Project functionality is presented as a summary overview.
Member for
24 years 8 monthsIt makes sense to find all
It makes sense to find all published videos and create a library.
Member for
24 years 8 monthsThank you
Thank you Evgeny!
Here https://www.facebook.com/notes/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5/%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BA-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%83-%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%83%D1%87%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C-%D0%B2-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D0%B5-spider-project/105030894237938/?hc_location=ufi you may find the references to Spider video lessons in Russian.
Marcus Possi may add videos that he created in other languages.
Member for
17 years 9 monthsDear all,I finally found some
Dear all,
I finally found some time for what I wanted to do long ago - to put some videos on youtube about Spider Project. Nowdays people search most of the information is vedeo format. I myself struggle to understand things if I can't find information on yourtube
so, I created a channel, called Spider Project. Cool features
At the moment it has only 2 videos, but I am planning to start slowly putting more vedeos there
Member for
24 years 8 monthsSafwan,it depends on how
Safwan,
it depends on how initial model was created.
If at the planning stage it was not assumed that Subcontractor 2 may replace Subcontractor 1 at point C, it will be necessary to replace resource assignments.
If such possibility was considered then it makes sense to assign Skills that include resources of both Subcontractor 1 and Subcontractor 2 and give resources of Subcontractor 1 higher priority. If Subcontractor 2 will be selected for doing this job it is sufficient to change resource priorities.
One more solution is creating conditional network. Spider Project has special activities that have zero duration and two states Yes or No. This activity precedes to two network branches. If condition of Switch is Yes one branch will be selected (and other ignored), if No then another. States of the Switch activity may be selected manually or basing on some user defined rule.
In your case it is reasonable to create Switch activity that precedes to start of point C execution and create two branches – one if the job will be done by Subcontractor 1 and second if point C will be done by Subcontractor 2. These branches may include different activities. Then you may set the rule like If the forecast of completing point B by Subcontractor 1 is later than certain date Switch will automatically select the state that means that point C will be done by Subcontractor 2.
It looks like using Switch activity is the best method in your case.
Member for
10 years 3 months"Defining project resources
"Defining project resources specify if they belong to special subcontractors or can be used by many of them. Spider Project will optimize project schedule taking this into account."
Expanding on my question;
Subcontractor 1 has been scoped with A, B and C, Subcontractor 2 with D, E, F.
Consider both have 'special resources' assigned to these activities/scope, and initially all is ok. At some point 'B' is delayed which opens up an opportunity for Subcontractor 2 to complete 'C' as well his scoped 'D, E, F' without affecting himself.
Would Spider maintain levelling with 'special subcontractor resource' or consider breaking this if the opportunity arises as per the above example?
"In this case Spider Project will select who will do the work basing on resource availability, user defined priorities and user defined criteria"
Or is my answer in the above quote and I'm just missing it..
Member for
24 years 8 monthsDefining project resources
Defining project resources specify if they belong to special subcontractors or can be used by many of them. Spider Project will optimize project schedule taking this into account.
Another case: when subcontractors use the same resource but it does not make sense to move it from one subcontractor to another until certain work was done (due to the distance or other reasons). This is modeled using spatial resources. In particular case when two or more subcontractors work in the one place they can share common space and resource will be used by all of them in the optimized schedule.
Skill means that resources belonging ti Skill can do the same work though with different productivity. You may create skill that includes resources of different subcontractors. In this case Spider Project will select who will do the work basing on resource availability, user defined priorities and user defined criteria (minimal cost, largest productivity or something else).
Let me know if your question was answered.
Member for
10 years 3 monthsApologies if reviving this
Apologies if reviving this thread upsets a few people but I figured it's the best place to ask.
I don't know too much about Spider other than postings from Rafael and Vladimir - bear this in mind when reading the question below.
I take it that Spider can resource level based on the selected scope a subcontractor is given throughout a project and can adhere to this rule throughout the project if modelled so. Can Spider show some optimization by the use of transferring resource from one subcontractor resource to another? (I understand that some will say humans should do this, but I'm curious if Spider could flag this)
I'm guessing the answer may be in skills (?)
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Vlad
In your reply to John Cornish
You are making an assumption that ALL portfolio projects used the corporate resources
Well here in Micro Planner land I am running a whole range of projects for ONE client (who is also using P3, P6, OPP, MSP) all the results from each project are shunted up to the corporate Financial System via a product called COBRA, which takes the results from each of the project management software packages and up loads it into FMIS (which is a massive Government based accounting and payment and all things to all men product)- I assume that you use XML methodologies which is how we do it
None of my projects ever uses any body from another projects resources. Each Project, whilst part of the Portfolio, is not necessarily resource dependent upon another.
If we do have related resource projects then obviously they are run in a single Model using one or another of the software packages which are available.
We use a WBS of fragnets as we did back in 1956-60 for the Polaris project for our COBRA upload
Hope that makes things clear
Raf
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafaela
I would have that a "Lead" would have been better for a dog
:-)
dont forget that Micro Planner not only does lags,
it does Leads too
Well it is the silly season :-)
Raf
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafaela
I have just placed a two week lag on the link between my Task and end and the Hammock has correctly calculated the duration as I would expect from Micro Planner X-Pert
Oh dear Oh Dear
Never ever be as dogmatic to say No other software does it
Keep telling you I was the pioneer to much of the computations and facilities which people like Vlad have been able to find on the public and other domains and use
in their products
I know most of them, especially in the past twenty years havent a clue where they got the knowledge from, but when they ask, I have .. so far ... dragged out my OLD OLD OLD workings from back as far as 1957 and Lo and behold, we were doing what ever back them
It is Christmas, you should be eating Christmas pie not H ..... pie
I am back to work again
Such fun :-)
Raf
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafaela
I just tried it using PDM - one task with a hamock linked by a start and end event
X-Pert calculated the hammock OK
Raf
Member for
24 years 9 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafaela
Yes YOU do know of a software package which can place a hammock across ONE ACTIVITY
Arrow Diagrams can do it
Micro Planner X-Pert for Windows and Mac does it
Raf
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Vladimir,
Your handling of the calendar along with the hammock activity is sheer genius.
Your creation of the hammock is cheating.
a) You cannot create a hammock linked to a single activity with no other software I know of.
b) You cannot use lag in hammock activities with no other software I know of, it is simply disregarded.
My next dog is to be named LAG.
Best regards,
Rafael
P.S. Yes it works well for me.
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
You can download the first version from the following link. I opted to cost load directly on the activity without use of resources, using cost components and cost centers.
http://rapidshare.com/files/324872310/MO.001.sprj
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Yes it makes sense.
The ball is on my side of the court, remember is holiday season, 73deg F/ 22.77 C and the sun is shining so today I will take some spare time, we have some US relatives escaping from their frigid winter.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
It can be modeled but it is not easy. But I am not sure that in Excel it will be easier.
Lets exchange the examples in Spider Project Demo. It will become much more clear for both of us.
With reference-books with consumption norms BOQ modelling is not too complicated.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Vladimir,
Not only will pay a few per completed jobs/task/activities but others will be paid on a regular basis say next week for payroll, next 30 days for invoices and receive BOQ payments 60 days after invoicing prior month during first week of the following month.
Of course I do not pretend exact granularity but an approximation good enough to make a computation for NPV that is close enough, a computation that will tell me months in green and months in red, I don’t think I need to model exact payment day. Anyway it is never going to be exactly on target especially the further away from today.
I am starting to get hooked not only into BOQ, but I am also thinking ahead when I might start using NPV available in Spider Project. As far as I remember you also mentioned IIR, internal rate of return, a computation that at times yields two values, one is the solution and the other is not, and even “modified” IRR so it is more than that. But "that", modeling of BOQ is going to be a common issue.
Hope you understand if others at home are to follow me it cannot be that complicated, otherwise they will do their cash flow analysis using Excel, even when is kind of static, not as dynamic when modeling into Spider Project.
Here on average, the Water Authority pays 3 to 6 months after invoicing, meanwhile you have to pay US equipment suppliers in advance to manufacturing. Banks and Sureties know and expect your cash flow shows this. Spider Project table reports can show the required details, just give me ease of use with regard to the offset between the resources (and activities) to cash flow.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsGeorge,I tried those sample
George,
I tried those sample projects earlier. Spider Project j301_1 instance default duration is 43 days (optimal).
I will look at your method and we will discuss this matter further (not in this forum). There are certain requirements to any algorithms that we use for project, program, portfolio scheduling. These requirements include:
- Multiple dependencies between the same activities that link any point of preceding activity with any point of succeding activity with lags that can be positive and negative and measured in time of quantity units,
- Resources, activities, lags may have own unique calendars,
- If skills are assigned the scheduling engine shall select and assign the resources that have necessary skills basing on their availabilities and user defined criteria,
- Activity durations may be calculated basing on quantities of work to be done and assigned resource productivities, if skills were assigned the duration is not known before project scheduling,
- Resource assignments may be partial and variable (when resource workloads or quantities may change during activity execution),
- Not only renewable but also consumable resources shall be considered,
- Project financing shall be considered as one of many schedule constraints,
- Etc. (there are many other requirements that need to be followed).
Sample projects in both production and project sets are too simple in structure though hard for finding optimal solution. The scheduling algorithm shall take into consideration all possible constraints and conditions.
Production scheduling may have different requirements like taking into account set-up durations.
In any case a lot of work is ahead to make an algorithm practical.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Thank you, John.
I just do not understand how to manage project portfolio and organization resources if some project managers use one PM software and some renegades decided to use another. In the portfolio all projects are interdependent when use common resources even if their activities are not linked.
So it is impossible to plan one project ignoring others.
How did you solve this problem?
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafael,
maybe I did not understand your requirements.
I understood this way:
You pay people salaries from their first to their last job in the project. You dont know when these jobs will happen but know for what jobs you will pay.
The same with machines - you will pay from the start of their usage to the end of their usage.
And the payments do not depend on the actual work that they do.
Correct me if my understanding is wrong.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Vladimir,
In order to set the hammock you need to know in advance which activities or portion of each is to be applied on each payment on your always changing activity dates prediction.
I am looking for the software to estimate the cash flow without telling the specific activities that will fall within each particular period.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafael,
we always create separate activities for payments.
If it is regular (once in a week for an example) then an activity may have special calendar/week like one work hour on Monday where payments are actually done. This activity may be set as hammock from the start to the finish of some set of works and you define cost per hour as planned payments per week. Actual payments may differ.
If you are paid for some result with 30 days lag then it is an activity with zero duration but certain cost.
Usually all payments activities in one of the structures belong to the same phase.
It is not necessary to show payment activities in all structures. They may be hidden and will not appear on the reports in one WBS but will be seen and considered in calculations in another WBS.
We suggest to create separate cost components for payments. The cost of one unit for payment components shall be negative.
In this case you will get separate reports on expenses, payments and cash flows, you will know who owns to whom and what amounts.
As expenses, payments (and incomes) may consist of components (payments for materials, payments to contractors, payments for machines, etc.).
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
you did not answer my questions.
But it is OK if you dont want to do it.
Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Vladimir,
I believe I can handle all my physical resources the way you suggest, I forgot about strong links, functionality that was not available in Primavera SureTrak. Please understand I am still not wired to think on it as an available tool for my schedules, it is not available everywhere on CPM literature. Don’t be surprised if you have to remind me of it a few several times again.
The remaining issue is about modeling cash flow in all your activities where cash income and expense payments will lag activity execution. Here I don’t want to create a new activity for every one impacting BOQ modeling for income and maybe another one for modeling actual payments or expenses. Here we pay payroll on a weekly basis, invoices on 30 days after receipt and with luck get our BOQ payment 30 to 60 days after activity execution in private jobs, about Government jobs you would be surprised how much latter we get paid, “prompt payment” is a fantasy here.
Probably a SS/FS lag and duration (if you want it to be different) can be defined at cost assigments as not to mess with resource allocations but making costs to follow resource allocation dates within the rule. In this way for example you can model payment 2 weeks after an activity finishes. Of course Earned Value will have o lag and will follow activity duration.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafael,
we do not permit this.
We teach our customers than an activity shall be executed by some resource team from the beginning to the end. If the planned`number of necessary resources is different at different parts of activity then divide it - it is not the same work.
But we permit to assign uncertain number of resources, like between 3 and 5. If three are available then an activity can start, if others will become available before activity finish they can join and accelerate activity performance.
If you will suggest an example where it can be useful we will add this function. Until then create two activities with FS strong link.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Vladimir,
Under Suretrak, for my non leveling resources it is not uncommon for me to assign a resource lag and resource duration different from activity duration. This I use when I want to model cash flow (costs and income).
How you model this within Spider Project and how it works under resource leveling?
By the way I dont know how it would work under SureTrak resource leveling.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
do they still use Micro Planner X-Pert for project and portfolio management?
I dont understand corporate PM system with the renegades that are outside of it.
What do you call customer focused projects? I think that all projects are customer focused.
Did you manage organization resources and costs in your corporate system? Did you create plans for the organization departments?
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
you wrote: At that company there was also MS Project for those that wanted to use a MS product.
Does it mean that "that company" had no corporate project management system? If PMs select any software they want to use and use them as they want, projects do not belong to the corporate portfolio, etc. the corporate system could not function.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
14 years 4 monthsVladimir,First, I must
Vladimir,
First, I must apologize for my misunderstanding of your answer. I do not have a deep knowledge of project scheduling, and mainly, I do not know how professional PM software like Spider works. By now I think I understand your answer. Anyway, thanks for your detailed response to my question.
For a change, I have one resource-constrained project scheduling benchmark problem for Spider. I took it from the PROJECT SCHEDULING PROBLEM LIBRARY (http://129.187.106.231/psplib/). It is the j301_1 instance with the optimal makespan 43. It is small (30 activities) and not too complex (single mode). You can download the j301_1 pdf file from http://www.4shared.com/document/zSX59zRv/j301_1_project_sched_benchmark.html
Vladimir, can you take a look at my software. I developed an optimization method called sweep algorithm. The method is based on discrete event simulation, and it can solve resource-constrained project scheduling problems. I tested the method by developing software, called Sweeper, and solving the job shop scheduling benchmarks with very good results. Sweeper can match the Spider’s results within 1-2 seconds, and as its calculation continues, it finds shorter and shorter schedules.
You can evaluate the method and software, and if you like it we can develop software, based on the method, which would solve your real-world project scheduling problems. Such software can be included in Spider. It would be a good complement to Spider’s other optimization software. As Rafael said (6-13-2011): “If there are other algorithms that should be added because they are better under certain circumstances, why not adding these options. I have no problem with having many algorithm options, prioritization is what confuses me.”
You can download a read_me text file from http://www.4shared.com/document/A5fBzFKS/read_me_Sweeper_exe.html
The read_me file has instructions for downloading, installing, and running Sweeper.exe. It also has links to my conference papers about the method and benchmark testing.
You can download a white paper about the method from http://www.4shared.com/document/mlba3MpK/Sweeper_explained.html
Rafael,
Can you take a look at Sweeper also? I am interested in your thoughts. Perhaps, you will even revamp Sweeper to your specs as local mechanics in San Juan fixed the Obama’s vehicle.
Best Regards,
George
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
Yes now I am clear. I was confused when you referred to “we”, I interpreted it as to be your actual coworkers at MPI, I could not understand why another software option if working at MPI.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
I could not find your info under PP directory search but found it at MPI site.
In your posting 251 you wrote, “In my industrial experience we used Micro Planner X-Pert as the selected planning software for over twenty years.... The Micro Planner X-Pert software tool we used was excellent, ...”
Do you have the option to select other vendors scheduling software at Micro Planning to develop your own scheduling software, if so which?
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi Carlos,
thank you for reminding the topic purpose.
I really hope to learn something new or that something useful is missed in Spider Project besides simulating human behavior. And questions like I need to model this and dont know if it is possible will be appreciated.
If you want to edit link properties just draw this link once more (and you will see link properties) or open activity properties as you suggested. Our projects usually include too many links crossing the screen. That is why we selected other ways.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Carlos,
What can Spider Do that your Tool can’t?
Isn’t it a valid question, remember we are confined to this posting? Does it means we will be forced to a single question, a single thread forever?
I have no other place to go and ask questions about Spider. Please be patient maybe, eventually Spider will have its place and this monstruous topic will be thing of the past, and issues will be easier to follow. Mike gave us hope as well as other PP moderators, is just that it takes time. For the moment we were asked to keep here and limit our reference to Spider on other topics.
About your question on not being able to edit a single relationship by clicking on my current graphic view I am not experiencing this issue, if you refer to clicking on the bars. Or do you refer to clicking on a bar and moving the cursor to another bar to create a new link? This you can also do.
Some fields are locked in your activity pane, I suspect to protect the traceability of updates and integrity of the data, same at other screens, is this your issue?
Mike,
Can we create other topics specific on Spider Project? Under which category?
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
16 years 5 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Cmon, people, were losing scope here. Lets challenge Spider! In giving challenges to Spider we give Vladimir the oportunity of improve Spider Project. Hes asking for challenges, hes not asking how much are your projects worth, hes not asking "What can Spider Do that your Tool cant?", hes asking "What can YOUR tool do that Spider cant?" or, also, "What cant YOUR tool do that youd wish it can?"
The goal should be defeat Spider with something it cant bear, "functionality that is useful but is not supported by the packages that you use". Something that requires workarounds.
Sure, Spider cant model human behavior so please dont come here to bluff that you can manage with eyes closed and your hands tied in the back. Can you? Then make a topic on how to do it.
Heres my question for Spider:
Why cant I edit a single relationship by clicking it in my current graphic view? Why must I go to the activity properties and find the link between all activity links?.
Im one voice more claiming for a Spider category in Planning Planet. I hope Mike hears us.
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
“You said: "Other software, I don’t know Micro Planner X-Pert, do not level resources based on the quantity because such data doesn’t exist.”
This was Vladimir, this is a kind of argument of a software developer that know better than I do. I am an end user who is starting to appreciate good resource leveling as my prior experience with Primavera SureTrak was no good at all. As a matter of fact most of these years I was using soft relationships to force the software to solve in this way resource constraining issues and then verified resource loading vs. availability without running resource leveling at all.
My projects rarely go over 600 activities, 30% procurement, they rarely go over 30$M US but they need all the functionality of advanced CPM software.
I believe there is a high possibility MP-X has a superb engine. If so this will confirm my argument, not all resource leveling algorithms are equal and this is a relevant functionality that differentiates the software. By the way Spider keeps several algorithms for your choice as these yields different results, one of them looks for a solution set that yields minimum job duration within your constraints but it might happen you prefer other solution, or that under certain circumstances one yields better results than the other.
Thanks for your contribution, many of your suggestions can be adapted to other software if need be, also I am sure many MP-X users appreciate it also. I hope you continue posting in PP about MP-X here and even in threads of your own, these will be enlightening.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Agustin,
“Variable quantity and workload”. I noted this but not yet there, your experience will be of great help.
If you noted on one of my prior posting about synchronization of update among several versions I called it as easy as 1,2,3 or a piece of cake so about probability and trends I will give it a try and maybe ask for your help. Perhaps it looks like much work but at a click of the mouse, the computer got to work and multitask also.
About norms, are you referring to reference books? If so, not yet there also.
About multitasking you should know that for 30 years I worked at the construction site, first as project engineer then as project manager, we did not multitasked but mega-tasked or giga-tasked.
But it also happens with equipment, a tower crane would be assigned several jobs at the same time, at times would be handling rebar materials, then gang forms, then a few other things.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Rafael,
below are the answers to your questions.
1) in Spider Project work load and productivity are kept separate and there is no need to use one to mimic the other as these parameters can be set up individually per activity assigment, keeping the interpretation simple and both available at the same time.
Yes, you are right. But I want to bring your attention to the ability to set quantities and workloads separately.
Most packages cannot do it. The users can define only total workload. As the result the workload of 200% may mean 2 resource units with 100% workload, 4 resource units with 50% workload, 5 resource units with 40% workload, etc. You just cannot specify the real needs.
2) in Spider Project the priority field is also independent per activity assignment and that it can provide me with the rule for the software to make the appropriate decision for hundreds of activities every time I run the schedule.
Again you are right. The assignment priority defines the rules for resource selection in skill scheduling. Usually the schedules managed with Spider Project consist of thousands activities.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
20 years 7 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi Anoon,
Vladimir gave the best answer. Is the way of thinking and how we can get a project model as closed as to the reality.
Best regards,
Augustin
Member for
20 years 7 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi Rafael,
You can work with the default options at the Resource Assignment level, but if you have information and want to model better the way project will be run, than you can use a specific workload and productivity. The productivity together with the resource quantity and Volume of Activity will allow calculating the activity duration during scheduling.
The estimation we made for activity duration based usually on the same info will be avoid. But using productivity means to have some recorded history. In the Eastern part of Europe we have work norms (or corporate norms) with this kind of information. It helps you not only to easily estimate the project cost for tender purpose (it is a huge database), but also to plan and schedule construction and to monitor and control it.
The priority will be used to fine tune the schedule, or to define some important resources over others.
But, what is in my opinion an important option, is “Variable quantity and workload”. It will allow to model multi-tasking phenomena which is the reality.
Any person involved in a project may perform in a certain day (or time interval) several activities. Other software, I don’t know Micro Planner X-Pert, do not level resources based on the quantity because such data doesn’t exist. Even Critical Chain suggests to avoid multi-tasking. But this is in the nature of how we work.
Using this option will give you a shorter duration of the project after resource constrained scheduling. Try it with two or three resources and activities and compare the results with what will give you SureTrak or MSP.
Best regards,
Augustin
Member for
24 years 8 monthsThank you, George.Yes, I have
Thank you, George.
Yes, I have read your post and answered.
Spider Project shall produce certain schedules with the same sets of initial data and the same methods chosen. It is project management requirement. If the Contractor submits some schedule to the Client both shall be sure that if anybody will run the scheduling again the result will be the same. So we could not afford anything uncertain (like time of the scheduling and the number of iterations). There are other reasons like the need for project trend analysis.
So we can create additional steps for resource constrained scheduling (now there are Standard, Advanced, Optimization, Optimization Plus levels) but cannot afford any uncertainty in the way the schedule is calculated. We already slightly improved Optimization Plus in yesterday release.
And as I wrote earlier the sample projects in the set were specially created to be hard and they are especially hard for Spider because our approach to iterative improvement uses WBS, the points where paths are merged. Your examples remind the portfolio scheduling but for this task optimization does not mean the shortest duration.
For really large projects with complex resource assignments (skills, partial assignments, conditions on continious work, resource production and consumption, etc.) Spider scheduling may take hours. So algorithms that find the best result for the benchmark schedules taking minutes of calculation could not be used at all in the real life.
I will try other samples later or will ask somebody in our office to do it. For me it is not easy to find the time for entering data.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
Thanks for your prompt reply, I used Micro Planner Manager for the Mac before and loved it.
Vladimir,
I kind of prefer the software to look at the options and make the decision; I am not to ask the PM for his preferences on every run especially on jobs with hundreds of activities, I prefer him to tell me the assignment priorities when preparing the model for the first time.
As you know I might be proficient with Primavera SureTrak that lacks the functionality for skills, crews and a few others Micro Planner and Spider have. As a rookie at these functionalities within Spider Project I know we have at the resource assignment tab the following options among many others, workload, productivity and priority.
Please tell me if I am correct with the following statements;
1) in Spider Project work load and productivity are kept separate and there is no need to use one to mimic the other as these parameters can be set up individually per activity assigment, keeping the interpretation simple and both available at the same time.
2) in Spider Project the priority field is also independent per activity assignment and that it can provide me with the rule for the software to make the appropriate decision for hundreds of activities every time I run the schedule. Of course a schedule is dynamic and preferences can be adjusted on an exception basis if the PM finds it appropriate.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
John,
Because the main theme of this topic is to challenge Spider and it does provides for different resources to be assigned the same skills with different productivities I would like to know how Micro Planner X-pert handles this issue. For example you have available one C+++ expert engineer that can code 1.5 times as fast as 2 rookies, how you take this into consideration within MP-X.
Best regards,
Rafael
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi John,
thank you for describing the way you use Micro Planner X-Pert.
I think that everybody agree that any software is the tool and the goal of any software developer is to suggest the proper tool to people who will use their product.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Anoon,
WBS defines what shall be done and tasks define how.
To do the tasks you need resources. So the tasks define resource requirements and these requirements include labor, machines, materials, equipment.
Defining logical links, assigning resources, defining task durations or volumes of work to be done and assigned resource productivities you can calculate the schedule that does not consider resource limitations. If the dates are not proper you can play What If first time changing links, resource assignments, calendars, or the scope (WBS).
If the schedule with unlimited resources looks good enough you shall define what resources you have and what restrictions you have.
Basing on resource availability and restrictions you can calculate project resource constrained schedule. Once again you may find that the delays are too large and the schedule needs improvement. This is the time for the second What If session. Now you play with resource availability, assignments, calendars and if the results are poor return to the step 1, reconsidering activity links and project scope.
The next step includes supply and financing analysis. If material and cost requirements could not be met the schedule shall be adjusted and once more What IF session be played.
Resources are consumable (materials and equipment) and renewable (labor, machines). WBS phases describe deliverables, tasks describe actions.
Time may be constrained, duration depends on tasks and resources.
I wrote earlier that assigning tasks to resources is more complicated than assigning resources to tasks (the result is the same?). It is easier to create and to assign resource crew than to remember all resources in the crew and to assign the same tasks to all of them.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
19 years 1 monthRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi Vladimir,
The Schedule means, What if??? (for me)
You can define the tasks or activities logically and then - What if?
The thing is, you are assigning resources to the tasks, and not tasks to resources (remember this question before?).
What if you had defined the Labor resources first and then assign the tasks? (I supposed you said that this cannot be possible in scheduling).
To make it simple:
Work out your tasks first,
and then work out your resources so that it will fit your tasks.
Resources are consummables, and Tasks are deliverables, and time is? (is time a constraint?)
So which one is more Critical?
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi Anoon,
the schedule means dates.
Without resources you can create Activity list, logical relationships, create the network.
But what can be done at what time depends on the available resources and the schedule that does not take this into account is not reliable.
So the tasks are first, but the schedule requires more than just tasks.
Best Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
19 years 1 monthRE: Let’s Challenge SPIDER
Hi Agustin,
Thanks for your view.
"No Resources - No valid Schedule" (by Glenwright)
What if you reverse it?
No Schedule - No valid Resources!
Which one do you define first? The Tasks or the Resources?
For me, resources is a matter of options, but you will always define the tasks first and not the resources - I mean in scheduling.
So if you dont have enough or available resources at a certain time, you still can wait for that time to come, but that doesnt mean that your schedule (of tasks) becomes invalid (maybe invalid to show only the earliest possible time).
Well, thats my view.
Best regards