Not only in Open Plan , Spider , but also in PowerProjects which allways operates in hours, minutes and seconds. you can set up unlimited shift pattens and associate the same shift patten to any variety of calendar. All resources can be assigned to shift pattens or calendars independantly to an activity calendar or shift patten. So i find i can can model resouces and shift pattens in a genuine and realistic way. you can also have a micro scheduled set of activities embedded in a overview task all within the one plan. in P3 you have to create a separate project to plan in a different time unit. Slightly off bernards track but thought it was worth mentioning ...
Regards
JK
Member for
24 years 8 months
Member for24 years9 months
Submitted by Vladimir Liberzon on Tue, 2005-02-08 05:04
Not only in Open Plan. In Spider Project you can plan activities even in fractions of minutes that is usually necessary when the package is used for simulating technological processes.
The problem with Open Plan, Primavera and many other PM software is not in defining shift periods. They do not properly simulate shift work.
Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
20 years 11 months
Member for21 years
Submitted by Philip Jonker on Mon, 2005-02-07 10:26
A good example is a case I experienced on a shutdown a few years back. We were doing a composite tube replacement on a chemical recovery furnace, and the interfaces between fit-up/welding and NDE (x-rays) became so critical that I had to re-schedule to 15 min time periods. The reason for this was that the tea breaks was 15 minutes, and the x-ray people would would setup just prior to the tea breaks, and then expose the films while the crew was out to tea. We ended up arranging two additional tea breaks per shift, and found that this aided us time wise. As a matter of interest the program I was using at the time was Open Plan Dos version 4. It had the facility of planning down to the minute, however, it had a limited on the number of time periods, I think it was something like 12000 periods, but I speak under correction.
Another area where planners use short periods, is in military planning.
My question will hopefully bring back to your original question.
Why do we need to plan the works in half hour, or even in a min by min intergal in project?
Are we reschedule and progress in the plan in every 30min??
Is the worker only do 9hr and 35mins of works instead of 10hrs?
Is the estimation of the work should be 1hr or 1 hr and 10 min?
I still remember in my very first lesson in project management and planning, my lecturer stated a project plan is only a reflect the estimated picture of a project upto the moments you finish the plan. Right after that the plan no longer represent it correct picture unless you update it with the latest progress and info again and majority of the the data for the plan is by estimate.
Unless the schedule is update by the min, I dont think it will be useful except look good in a project report.
However, in some event/projects, planning and updating is actually happen to be in min or even seconds. Like lanuching a spaceship.
So in my opinon, the new engin will not be very common unless other system can support the min by min update and 100% accurate in forecast and actual.
Cheers
Alex
Member for
22 years 11 months
Member for22 years11 months
Submitted by Bernard Ertl on Sat, 2005-02-05 11:57
If your working on a new scheduling engine I think it would need to go to minutes, or at least 5 minute intervals, or 1/4 hour intervals. AND it would need to be based on 24 hours per day.
We have shift pattens that vary , and have day time / night time activities . e.g rail possessions to do work over rail line we are restricted to week day 6 hour possessions at specific times in which only 4 hours work are done, at weekends the times and available hours are different. Similarly traffic switches are permitted at particular times and have to be scheduled accordingly.
also day time shift pattens vary summer to winter depending on daylight hours. i set up calendars/shift pattens to recognise this and activities shorten or lengthen [start to finish] in the transition [february , october] the ability to vary the shift in 1/2 hour increments is quite useful.
We also have shift pattens that start / finish on the half hour and have two 1/4 hour tea breaks and an 1/2 hor lunch break, so strict shift schedulling would need to cater for this i imagine.
Member for
20 years 9 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Hi All
Not only in Open Plan , Spider , but also in PowerProjects which allways operates in hours, minutes and seconds. you can set up unlimited shift pattens and associate the same shift patten to any variety of calendar. All resources can be assigned to shift pattens or calendars independantly to an activity calendar or shift patten. So i find i can can model resouces and shift pattens in a genuine and realistic way. you can also have a micro scheduled set of activities embedded in a overview task all within the one plan. in P3 you have to create a separate project to plan in a different time unit. Slightly off bernards track but thought it was worth mentioning ...
Regards
JK
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
To Hermie LaO:
Not only in Open Plan. In Spider Project you can plan activities even in fractions of minutes that is usually necessary when the package is used for simulating technological processes.
The problem with Open Plan, Primavera and many other PM software is not in defining shift periods. They do not properly simulate shift work.
Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
20 years 11 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Hi all,
A good example is a case I experienced on a shutdown a few years back. We were doing a composite tube replacement on a chemical recovery furnace, and the interfaces between fit-up/welding and NDE (x-rays) became so critical that I had to re-schedule to 15 min time periods. The reason for this was that the tea breaks was 15 minutes, and the x-ray people would would setup just prior to the tea breaks, and then expose the films while the crew was out to tea. We ended up arranging two additional tea breaks per shift, and found that this aided us time wise. As a matter of interest the program I was using at the time was Open Plan Dos version 4. It had the facility of planning down to the minute, however, it had a limited on the number of time periods, I think it was something like 12000 periods, but I speak under correction.
Another area where planners use short periods, is in military planning.
Regards
Philip
Member for
22 years 8 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Bernard
My question will hopefully bring back to your original question.
Why do we need to plan the works in half hour, or even in a min by min intergal in project?
Are we reschedule and progress in the plan in every 30min??
Is the worker only do 9hr and 35mins of works instead of 10hrs?
Is the estimation of the work should be 1hr or 1 hr and 10 min?
I still remember in my very first lesson in project management and planning, my lecturer stated a project plan is only a reflect the estimated picture of a project upto the moments you finish the plan. Right after that the plan no longer represent it correct picture unless you update it with the latest progress and info again and majority of the the data for the plan is by estimate.
Unless the schedule is update by the min, I dont think it will be useful except look good in a project report.
However, in some event/projects, planning and updating is actually happen to be in min or even seconds. Like lanuching a spaceship.
So in my opinon, the new engin will not be very common unless other system can support the min by min update and 100% accurate in forecast and actual.
Cheers
Alex
Member for
22 years 11 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I think the path forward for me is clear.
Bernard Ertl
ATC Professional Shutdown / Turnaround Management System
Member for
20 years 9 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Bernard
If your working on a new scheduling engine I think it would need to go to minutes, or at least 5 minute intervals, or 1/4 hour intervals. AND it would need to be based on 24 hours per day.
We have shift pattens that vary , and have day time / night time activities . e.g rail possessions to do work over rail line we are restricted to week day 6 hour possessions at specific times in which only 4 hours work are done, at weekends the times and available hours are different. Similarly traffic switches are permitted at particular times and have to be scheduled accordingly.
also day time shift pattens vary summer to winter depending on daylight hours. i set up calendars/shift pattens to recognise this and activities shorten or lengthen [start to finish] in the transition [february , october] the ability to vary the shift in 1/2 hour increments is quite useful.
We also have shift pattens that start / finish on the half hour and have two 1/4 hour tea breaks and an 1/2 hor lunch break, so strict shift schedulling would need to cater for this i imagine.
Regards
JK
Member for
20 years 9 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Vladimir - Open Plan has definable shift calendar that can go down to minute incriments. Say 9:10-12:20 as one shift.
Member for
22 years 11 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Thanks. I have only seen shifts beginning on the hour, but suspected that starting at other times might be practiced.
Vladimir, Im working on a new scheduling engine. Theres always a balance between what is possible and what is practical/desired.
Bernard Ertl
ATC Professional Shutdown / Turnaround Management System
Member for
24 years 8 monthsRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Bernard,
yes, it happens. Why did you ask it?
Regards,
Vladimir
Member for
21 years 1 monthRE: Shifts starting on the half hour?
Yes almost always.
But I have never used it for planning purposes.