i've found that the general defense from the clients team is that... you havn't submitted it in a project from, can you provide a wrtitten narrative etc etc.
i found the best solution was to start with a report, supplemented with a spreadsheet analysis of the effect of each claim and then attach a project to the back of it with all the stages mapped out. and yes, simplify it if you can so that you can see the cause and effect more transparently.
but as noted earlier, im assuming you've notifieed the engineer of your claim at an appropriate point in the past. if not you may be time constrained for submission.
perhpas its worth checking which variations have merit and then decide which ones to use. e.g dont use weather as it has time but not cost implications.
i've found that the general defense from the clients team is that... you havn't submitted it in a project from, can you provide a wrtitten narrative etc etc.
i found the best solution was to start with a report, supplemented with a spreadsheet analysis of the effect of each claim and then attach a project to the back of it with all the stages mapped out. and yes, simplify it if you can so that you can see the cause and effect more transparently.
but as noted earlier, im assuming you've notifieed the engineer of your claim at an appropriate point in the past. if not you may be time constrained for submission.
perhpas its worth checking which variations have merit and then decide which ones to use. e.g dont use weather as it has time but not cost implications.
Narrative plus spreadsheet plus revised program for each critical step.
you'll need to lead your client one step at a time, otherwise it all gets too much. i had a similar issue over 10% of the contract sum.
first we had to agree the fundamental intents of the tender program as we were initially unable to agree from which point we should measure.
then variation 1, agree the basis of claim, time consideration and then revise the program, with a revised due date.
then variation #2, same issue. etc etc.
in the end i had a summary of this in a spreadsheet.
and then we negotiated.....
the program had holes in it, we had to include links that were not in the tender / construction program just to keep everything moving. it was like having an argument with my wife. we were never going to win with a full frontal attack. so we had to go slowly and surely but by a slightly protracted route.
I am about to start an EOT claim based on an excel spreadsheet and I was about to ask this same. Thank you for this, the Hammock approach sounds easy to develop and to deffend.
I am starting to think that the big topic on Forensic Analysis is the question: Based on this spreadsheet without defined logic, how can you prove an Extension of time over the contractual finish date? - And if one can answer that question, he/she can deal with any schedule.
This topic is now beginning to fall in line with our current project. We are about to request an extension of time, however we need to demonstrate the gravity of the delay by using the P6 presentation. Can anybody help in the step in the presentation of the delay with logs associated with the individual activities by comparing the baseline and current schedule. Default report inP6 does not show this option.
It depends if the notification clause is a "condition precedent" or not.
Also it depends on whether the notice requirements are too onerous - for instance a requirement for a fully detailed claim to be submitted within 10 days of the event would be unreasonable.
Then there is the possibility that the contractor only gets to know about the event some time after it occurred - so there should be a phrase like "or when the contractor became aware..."
Finally there is the principle of "unjust enrichment" where an employer cannot make a gain from his own default.
Apart from all that it is best practice to get your EoT notices in on time.
It is normally state in the contract that the delays have to be notified within certain days of happening. Ths we write a notice of delay to the contractors. And within certain number of days we have to submit our application for EOT.
But from what I see, most are only doing that at late stage of project or handing over.
Will there be any contractual implication if we submit our EOT claims late?
The narrative+spreadsheet approach seems better and simple ; had to check whether it is acceptable to the Cont. whom had given me this task.
Meanwhile, Mike will you please elaborate the suggested first approach.......particularily this sentence."Before that add another task which represents all the critical lead in items and link FS......."
I would suggest that you create a radically simplified programme with One task representing all the critical items.
This can be in the form of a hammock if your software allows it.
Before that add another task which represents all the critical lead in items and link FS.
Impact the delays on the lead in items and see the delay effect.
The advantage of this approach is that it is a clear and simple demonstration of cause and effect that a tribunal will readily understand.
Alternatively you can prepare a new programme that demonstrates the original intent but with clear and dynamic logic - using only FS links and NO contraints.
And then impact the delay events one by one.
The disadvantage of this method is that you will be accused of rigging the result and any tribunal will be very suspiscious of any form of trickery.
A third approach is to use only text and spreadsheets and abandon ypur programme altogether.
Member for
13 years 8 monthsmike has a good point.i've
mike has a good point.
i've found that the general defense from the clients team is that... you havn't submitted it in a project from, can you provide a wrtitten narrative etc etc.
i found the best solution was to start with a report, supplemented with a spreadsheet analysis of the effect of each claim and then attach a project to the back of it with all the stages mapped out. and yes, simplify it if you can so that you can see the cause and effect more transparently.
but as noted earlier, im assuming you've notifieed the engineer of your claim at an appropriate point in the past. if not you may be time constrained for submission.
perhpas its worth checking which variations have merit and then decide which ones to use. e.g dont use weather as it has time but not cost implications.
Member for
13 years 8 monthsmike has a good point.i've
mike has a good point.
i've found that the general defense from the clients team is that... you havn't submitted it in a project from, can you provide a wrtitten narrative etc etc.
i found the best solution was to start with a report, supplemented with a spreadsheet analysis of the effect of each claim and then attach a project to the back of it with all the stages mapped out. and yes, simplify it if you can so that you can see the cause and effect more transparently.
but as noted earlier, im assuming you've notifieed the engineer of your claim at an appropriate point in the past. if not you may be time constrained for submission.
perhpas its worth checking which variations have merit and then decide which ones to use. e.g dont use weather as it has time but not cost implications.
Member for
13 years 8 monthsNarrative plus spreadsheet
Narrative plus spreadsheet plus revised program for each critical step.
you'll need to lead your client one step at a time, otherwise it all gets too much. i had a similar issue over 10% of the contract sum.
first we had to agree the fundamental intents of the tender program as we were initially unable to agree from which point we should measure.
then variation 1, agree the basis of claim, time consideration and then revise the program, with a revised due date.
then variation #2, same issue. etc etc.
in the end i had a summary of this in a spreadsheet.
and then we negotiated.....
the program had holes in it, we had to include links that were not in the tender / construction program just to keep everything moving. it was like having an argument with my wife. we were never going to win with a full frontal attack. so we had to go slowly and surely but by a slightly protracted route.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi Carlos No delay analysis
Hi Carlos
No delay analysis ever "Proves" anything - they are at best a projected opinion as to cause and effect.
Using the narrative technique the delay is described and the delay period stated and the overall effect on progress is calculated.
The US Corps of Engineers used this method to establish EoT on defence projects which then developed into the "window" method.
The system worked perfectly well until computers came along and spoilt it all.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
16 years 5 monthsHi Mike,I am about to start
Hi Mike,
I am about to start an EOT claim based on an excel spreadsheet and I was about to ask this same. Thank you for this, the Hammock approach sounds easy to develop and to deffend.
I am starting to think that the big topic on Forensic Analysis is the question: Based on this spreadsheet without defined logic, how can you prove an Extension of time over the contractual finish date? - And if one can answer that question, he/she can deal with any schedule.
All respect,
-Carlos.
Member for
14 years 3 monthsHi Everyone, This topic is
Hi Everyone,
This topic is now beginning to fall in line with our current project. We are about to request an extension of time, however we need to demonstrate the gravity of the delay by using the P6 presentation. Can anybody help in the step in the presentation of the delay with logs associated with the individual activities by comparing the baseline and current schedule. Default report inP6 does not show this option.
Thanks
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi CH It depends if the
Hi CH
It depends if the notification clause is a "condition precedent" or not.
Also it depends on whether the notice requirements are too onerous - for instance a requirement for a fully detailed claim to be submitted within 10 days of the event would be unreasonable.
Then there is the possibility that the contractor only gets to know about the event some time after it occurred - so there should be a phrase like "or when the contractor became aware..."
Finally there is the principle of "unjust enrichment" where an employer cannot make a gain from his own default.
Apart from all that it is best practice to get your EoT notices in on time.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
15 years 9 monthsSorry to interpret the
Sorry to interpret the conversation
It is normally state in the contract that the delays have to be notified within certain days of happening. Ths we write a notice of delay to the contractors. And within certain number of days we have to submit our application for EOT.
But from what I see, most are only doing that at late stage of project or handing over.
Will there be any contractual implication if we submit our EOT claims late?
Member for
18 yearsHi Mike,Thank you for the
Hi Mike,
Thank you for the explanation.
Now the most difficult part - Convincing the Cont. to prepare EOT based on Narratiive report with sketches/datas using spreadsheets.
Regards,
Rajeev
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi Rajeev I am assuming that
Hi Rajeev
I am assuming that your horrible programme had some lead in tasks for design development and material issue etc.
My suggestion was to group all these into one lead in task and build all the relevant delays onto that.
If there are no such tasks then create a milestone and call it something like Employers Lead In Items.
Then change the milestone to a duration to account for all the delays.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
18 yearsHello Mike,Thank you for
Hello Mike,
Thank you for briefing the different scenarios.
The narrative+spreadsheet approach seems better and simple ; had to check whether it is acceptable to the Cont. whom had given me this task.
Meanwhile, Mike will you please elaborate the suggested first approach.......particularily this sentence."Before that add another task which represents all the critical lead in items and link FS......."
I will be using P3 as the Cont. does not have P6.
Regards,
Rajeev
Member for
19 years 10 monthsHi Rajeev In other words -
Hi Rajeev
In other words - situation normal.
I would suggest that you create a radically simplified programme with One task representing all the critical items.
This can be in the form of a hammock if your software allows it.
Before that add another task which represents all the critical lead in items and link FS.
Impact the delays on the lead in items and see the delay effect.
The advantage of this approach is that it is a clear and simple demonstration of cause and effect that a tribunal will readily understand.
Alternatively you can prepare a new programme that demonstrates the original intent but with clear and dynamic logic - using only FS links and NO contraints.
And then impact the delay events one by one.
The disadvantage of this method is that you will be accused of rigging the result and any tribunal will be very suspiscious of any form of trickery.
A third approach is to use only text and spreadsheets and abandon ypur programme altogether.
I hope this helps
Best regards
Mike Testro