Claim analysis is not a simple task. i have been concentrating in claims. Any way you can varify following (Ofcourse you need more experienc eot finalize the issue)
1. Check how many variation issued by client
2. What was the project status while issuing variations.
3. Any delay from client side
4. Did they incorporated concurrent delay
5. Impact os approved baseline and updateschedule
6. All suporting documents letters etc
7. If they inluded new activity check for production rate
and so on the list is end less depend how big your project how complex the calim. Better seek advice form some one senior in your company - even other project.
For the quantification issue as per Mike’s posting #8 I would suggest doing some Google search into the concept of measured mile, a concept being accepted elsewhere.
"That is why most of client postponing approving EOT to the end of the project in order to make the contractor expecting the non-approval of EOT then do their best to reduce the delay."
I would like to draw down my small information about the EOT, and why the Time Impact Analysis is required.
If, in principle agreed that the cotractor is entitled for EOT.
many ocntractor placing the delay occurred in the program of works,
then
all successor activities and impacted activities would be shifted by the same amount of replaced delay.
but according to FIDIC the contractor should apply all of his endeavors to reduce the effect of occurred delay,
Part of those endeavors would be exposed through analysing and submitting the "Time Impact Analysis".
That is why most of client postponing approving EOT to the end of the project in order to make the contractor expecting the non-approval of EOT then do their best to reduce the delay.
N.B. approving EOT doesnt mean that the contractor is entitled to claim for cost of preliminary during that EOT.
Best wishes,
Mohamed
Member for
20 years 10 months
Member for20 years11 months
Submitted by Andrew Flowerdew on Tue, 2009-06-02 15:38
I have to agree with Mike & Ken on this one - tell your employer you need some help until the senior position is filled. Then learn everything you can from whoever fills that position.
Appears to be a big project, big eot claim and therefore big money at stake - but at this point in time you still have a big lot of learning to do.
Would undoubtedly be a good one to learn delay analysis on but first you’ve got to find the teacher. Then next time, and there will no doubt be a next time, you will know what to do. As the saying goes, don’t try to run before you can walk.
As someone pointed out in an earlier post, getting it wrong could end up costing your employer a huge amount of wasted money.
Member for
17 years 3 months
Member for17 years3 months
Submitted by Samer Zawaydeh on Mon, 2009-06-01 16:36
You need to start spending time reading your Conditions of Contract. Then read all the Monthly reports from the start of the project.
Ask questions as you gain more knowlege about the project.
Try to isolate the delays due to the client. These are always easier to process and approved.
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your kind words. People here are trying to close the gap between the problems they face and the possible solutions at the end of the road. If we can assist in closing this gap and assist them in selecting the best course of action by referring to our experience, then this would be the best use of our experience.
The project progress is 30% as of today while it should have been completed last January 2009.
My manager (before he left the project) have already asked the contractor to submit a "Time Impact Analysis", but the contractor seems to ignore this method although mentionned under his contract.
He submit the new schedule with one year delay, and starts the schedule from the data date without recording any past informations (actual starts).
As my understanding of this method, He should compare the baseline schedule (Original as per his contract) and the new schedule (where delays occur) and try to prove that the variance between the two schedules is exactly the delay that he is claiming. and he should do this for every delayed task not only the critical path because nothing has been completed as per the original schedule.
Listen to Mike. Any advice you receive otherwise is bound to confuse you. You will not become an expert by taking advice on here.
What Mike is saying is right. In legal terms there are three things to demonstrate;
1 Legal entitlement. The contract provisions must be adhered to in terms of notices, etc.
2 Causation. There has to be shown a link from the contract provision to the event that is claimed to the effect it has on the critical path.
3 Quantum. What is the overall entitlement?
In order to do delay claim work, you need 3 skills - A) Legal B) Delay analysis C) Commercial
The simplest way to defend a time-claim is to show that there is no causal nexus from the contract and the facutal matrix to the claimed entitlement. If that statement confuses you, then you need to hand it to someone else.
Thanks Planners for your advices. As you said and I agree with you, this subject should be left to more experienced persons in my company.
I will just ask the contractor to give more supportting data for his claim so as to make the decision for my client easier.
How should the contractor support his claim, what is the full set of documents? how should the new schedule (with delays) be presented by the contractor?
Mikes advice is sound. In order to be qualitified you will need to spend at least 4 years full time working in this field.
Since you are on a Big construction Project and you are a jonior Engineer, the decision making is left to upper management.
The 1st thing is to read your Contract documents thoroughly and check for any clause related to time extension. This will be your Guide.
If you Contract is under FIDIC 1999, then you need to read clause 8/3 about the Program of Works and clause, Chapter 13 for variations and Chapter 20 for claims. It is essential that the Contractor submit their request for time extention in a timely manner and in accordance to FIDIC instructions in this case.
You will need also to check with your team members, if the claim submitted is correct or not.
Types of Claim Analysis; Use the Internet to google and read about the subject.
Read the Contractors claim few times and put your remarks and questions. Raise them here and I am sure that you will receive replies. This will assist you in picking up speed on what is important.
Whereas it is easier to defend an EOT claim than prosecute one your lack of experience may allow a worthless claim to be awarded.
Alternatively you may inadvertantly refuse a perfectly valid claim and your client may end in a costly dispute procedure.
It seems that there is a vacancy in your company for a senior planner and you can gain experience by assisting him/her.
While a suitable person is being recruited you can make a start by investigating if the contractor has complied whith the contract in respect of correct notice conditions.
My earlier advice stands - please dont try to do it yourself.
I know you are the expert in this field with 32 years experience.
As you can see, Im a new engineer. I was hired under the responsibility of a planning manager but to my great saddness he left the company. so I find my self alone with this urgent issue.
Thats why Im seeking your help through this forum. give me the chance to become qualified as you are.
Member for
19 years 3 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Dear May.
Claim analysis is not a simple task. i have been concentrating in claims. Any way you can varify following (Ofcourse you need more experienc eot finalize the issue)
1. Check how many variation issued by client
2. What was the project status while issuing variations.
3. Any delay from client side
4. Did they incorporated concurrent delay
5. Impact os approved baseline and updateschedule
6. All suporting documents letters etc
7. If they inluded new activity check for production rate
and so on the list is end less depend how big your project how complex the calim. Better seek advice form some one senior in your company - even other project.
Regards
Regards
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi Chandra
Please do not place multiple identicle threads - they are an irritating waste of time and space.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
21 years 8 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Chandra,
For the quantification issue as per Mike’s posting #8 I would suggest doing some Google search into the concept of measured mile, a concept being accepted elsewhere.
http://www.uslaw.com/library/Construction_Law/Court_Endorses_Measured_M…
http://www.buric.com/Measured_Mile.pdf
The concept applies for acceleration as well as for loss of productivity.
Member for
18 years 2 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Dear All,
If anybody have a sample of acceleration cost claim & prolongation cost claim, please forward me. I will be more grateful to you.
chandrats@gmail.com
Member for
20 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Mohamed,
Wonder why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess it didnt quite suit your sides point of view or tactics.
Member for
16 years 9 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi Andrew,
I didnt enjoy joining that discussion earlier.
Mohamed
Member for
20 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
All
"That is why most of client postponing approving EOT to the end of the project in order to make the contractor expecting the non-approval of EOT then do their best to reduce the delay."
Remember discussing this scenario some time ago:
http://www.planningplanet.com/forum/forum_post.asp?fid=&Cat=5&Top=43803…
Member for
16 years 9 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Greetings to May and all,
I would like to draw down my small information about the EOT, and why the Time Impact Analysis is required.
If, in principle agreed that the cotractor is entitled for EOT.
many ocntractor placing the delay occurred in the program of works,
then
all successor activities and impacted activities would be shifted by the same amount of replaced delay.
but according to FIDIC the contractor should apply all of his endeavors to reduce the effect of occurred delay,
Part of those endeavors would be exposed through analysing and submitting the "Time Impact Analysis".
That is why most of client postponing approving EOT to the end of the project in order to make the contractor expecting the non-approval of EOT then do their best to reduce the delay.
N.B. approving EOT doesnt mean that the contractor is entitled to claim for cost of preliminary during that EOT.
Best wishes,
Mohamed
Member for
20 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
May,
I have to agree with Mike & Ken on this one - tell your employer you need some help until the senior position is filled. Then learn everything you can from whoever fills that position.
Appears to be a big project, big eot claim and therefore big money at stake - but at this point in time you still have a big lot of learning to do.
Would undoubtedly be a good one to learn delay analysis on but first you’ve got to find the teacher. Then next time, and there will no doubt be a next time, you will know what to do. As the saying goes, don’t try to run before you can walk.
As someone pointed out in an earlier post, getting it wrong could end up costing your employer a huge amount of wasted money.
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Dear May,
You need to start spending time reading your Conditions of Contract. Then read all the Monthly reports from the start of the project.
Ask questions as you gain more knowlege about the project.
Try to isolate the delays due to the client. These are always easier to process and approved.
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your kind words. People here are trying to close the gap between the problems they face and the possible solutions at the end of the road. If we can assist in closing this gap and assist them in selecting the best course of action by referring to our experience, then this would be the best use of our experience.
With kind regards,
Samer
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
No, you are not correct. You are confusing Time Impact Analysis with As-Planned versus As-built analysis.
There is always a critical path, but it will move
You are digging a big hole for yourself in trying to rise to this challenge.
Member for
16 years 5 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Thanks for your advices.
The project progress is 30% as of today while it should have been completed last January 2009.
My manager (before he left the project) have already asked the contractor to submit a "Time Impact Analysis", but the contractor seems to ignore this method although mentionned under his contract.
He submit the new schedule with one year delay, and starts the schedule from the data date without recording any past informations (actual starts).
As my understanding of this method, He should compare the baseline schedule (Original as per his contract) and the new schedule (where delays occur) and try to prove that the variance between the two schedules is exactly the delay that he is claiming. and he should do this for every delayed task not only the critical path because nothing has been completed as per the original schedule.
Am I correct?
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi May,
Listen to Mike. Any advice you receive otherwise is bound to confuse you. You will not become an expert by taking advice on here.
What Mike is saying is right. In legal terms there are three things to demonstrate;
1 Legal entitlement. The contract provisions must be adhered to in terms of notices, etc.
2 Causation. There has to be shown a link from the contract provision to the event that is claimed to the effect it has on the critical path.
3 Quantum. What is the overall entitlement?
In order to do delay claim work, you need 3 skills - A) Legal B) Delay analysis C) Commercial
The simplest way to defend a time-claim is to show that there is no causal nexus from the contract and the facutal matrix to the claimed entitlement. If that statement confuses you, then you need to hand it to someone else.
Good luck otherwise
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi May
Once again it is not that simple.
A claim has to pass at least three tests.
1, Justification
2. Substantiation
3. Quantification
1. Has the contractor justified his claim as being correct under the contract?
Have all the correct notifications been submitted?
Are the correct contract clauses being applied?
2. Has the contractor made the corect substatiation of his claim?
Is the chosen method of analysis the most suitable?
Is the baseline suitable for delay analysis?
Is the software being applied correctly.
3. Has the contractor quantified the claimed period correctly?
Has any contractor culpable delays been taken into account?
Has the concurrency rules been applied correctly?
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
16 years 5 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Thanks Planners for your advices. As you said and I agree with you, this subject should be left to more experienced persons in my company.
I will just ask the contractor to give more supportting data for his claim so as to make the decision for my client easier.
How should the contractor support his claim, what is the full set of documents? how should the new schedule (with delays) be presented by the contractor?
Thanks a lot
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi Samer
I knew you would come riding through like a knight in shining armour to the aid of our novice friend May.
Maybe if we get enough answers to the basic questions - some of which you have raised already - we can get some basic advice together.
However I think we have a duty of care here.
This is not a simple question on planning techniques or calendars and such.
There seems to be big money at stake - as with any EOT situation - so we should tread lightly in this thread.
Best Regards
Mike Testro
Member for
17 years 3 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Dear May,
Mikes advice is sound. In order to be qualitified you will need to spend at least 4 years full time working in this field.
Since you are on a Big construction Project and you are a jonior Engineer, the decision making is left to upper management.
The 1st thing is to read your Contract documents thoroughly and check for any clause related to time extension. This will be your Guide.
If you Contract is under FIDIC 1999, then you need to read clause 8/3 about the Program of Works and clause, Chapter 13 for variations and Chapter 20 for claims. It is essential that the Contractor submit their request for time extention in a timely manner and in accordance to FIDIC instructions in this case.
You will need also to check with your team members, if the claim submitted is correct or not.
Types of Claim Analysis; Use the Internet to google and read about the subject.
Read the Contractors claim few times and put your remarks and questions. Raise them here and I am sure that you will receive replies. This will assist you in picking up speed on what is important.
Hope the information helped.
With kind regards,
Samer
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi May
Whereas it is easier to defend an EOT claim than prosecute one your lack of experience may allow a worthless claim to be awarded.
Alternatively you may inadvertantly refuse a perfectly valid claim and your client may end in a costly dispute procedure.
It seems that there is a vacancy in your company for a senior planner and you can gain experience by assisting him/her.
While a suitable person is being recruited you can make a start by investigating if the contractor has complied whith the contract in respect of correct notice conditions.
My earlier advice stands - please dont try to do it yourself.
Best regards
Mike Testro
Member for
16 years 5 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Dear Mike,
I know you are the expert in this field with 32 years experience.
As you can see, Im a new engineer. I was hired under the responsibility of a planning manager but to my great saddness he left the company. so I find my self alone with this urgent issue.
Thats why Im seeking your help through this forum. give me the chance to become qualified as you are.
Thanks for your help.
Member for
19 years 10 monthsRE: Contractor Claim
Hi May
I am sorry to say that you are out of your depth and not qualified to give your employer the best service.
My advice is that you tell your employer that you do not know how to do what is asked and that he employ an experienced delay analyst to do the job.
Best regards
Mike Testro