Yes, you are right in assuming that the basic process of construction of a buidling/civil projects and the construction/manufacturing/fabrication/supplying of a train will be the same.
In the train project, there will be mainly a P.O. (Purchase Order), which is the normal term used instead of a Letter or Award like in building works from the client to the supplier/fabrication in this case as compared to contractor in construciton industry. Same like L.A., the P.O. will tell the start date, the construction/fabrication period and the final delivery date of the train.
The Purchase order will usually be accompanied with the terms and conditions of the contract which will tell you in more detail regarding some other dates and the criteria for the inspection and testing of the crane e.g. FAT (factory acceptance test) of the equipments being used on the train which normally the client will need to witness and approve. In addition there may be the acceptance parameters defined in the contract for the efficiency of the train which will be checked during the commissioning stage like minimum speed etc.
There may be some payment milestones mentioned in the contract or P.O. which will tell you the milestones which need to be accpomplished before the payment can be made like manufacturing a major part of the train, delivery of some major eqpuipment etc.
In shipping industry, there is a surveyor which will inspect all the fabrication works being carried out on the ship and will also be involved in the inspection and testing of the equipment in the factory as well as during the commissioning stage of the ship. In train as well there must be some designer (same like in building/civil industry) who will be responsible for the design aspects of the crane and will confirm on the design parameters.
In short the process is same for both industries. Let me know if I am of any help to you in this regards.
Thanks for your input; your own experience supports my guess-work that the construction of a large transportation machine is very similar to the construction of a civil/building project.
I had been asked to carry out Claims Management on the construction of specialist trains, and I was looking to see how my own experience in building, civil and infrastructure works could be applied in this instance.
From a planning (and therefore from a claims) point of view, I think that that you have shown that there is a great deal of commonality between building trains, boats and planes on the one hand, and power stations, high-rises and industrial plants on the other!
I have worked on the construction of ships/patrol vessels and also have worked on various construction projects including the fabrication of container gantry cranes and power plants.
Basically the process in executing a civil/building project and constructing a ship is same. You have a contractual start date, construction period which includes the fabrication of different components of a ship and the installation of the equipment onboard ship in a specified period and there is a fixed contractual completion date. I dont see any difference between a civil/structural project and building a ship as long as the contractual matters are concerned in the execution of the project.
Stuart, what actually is your question and what are you looking for? If you can be a bit specific in your question, it may help in understanding and replying your question.
I do came across a project in Sydney in related to the millenium trains.
The project itself is a disaster, the first train was build in 2003 instead of the name suggested 2000.
Anyway,
They using P3 as their scheduling tool, it is very similar to a design & built contract in construction terms.
Firstly, each component in the train have there own design, then lead to the manufacturing period, assemble, PAT, SAT, T&C.
There is interrelationship between each sub-system, like the body of the train have to be confirm before you can fit in the size of the engin... all the electrical system have to complete their comsumption rating before the electrical supply unit design initiate.
The major difference between "Manufacure a transport machine" and Contrsuction is the degree of automatic and process flow.
On degree of automatic, in Manufacturing less human more robot and opposite in Construction. However, in Japan, they have constructed a building by large amount of robots. Most components are pre-fabricated eith on-site or off-site (like Manufacturing, small components are manufactured by others or at other locations). In Hong Kong, the prefabrication covers interal wall partition, external wall, staircase, etc. These arrangement are quite similiar between 2 industries.
For the process flow, in Construction, the final product is in one specific location. What I means is the building is at there, the wall is at that particular location and level, never change. The whole construction process is in a fixed location with people is moving around, shift from one point to another. But in Manufacturing, may same as Construction or may not. For the ’may not’ type, I think the product is flow from one spot to another. Each spot, more raw components add-on to form the product. Workers just stay in a fix location (production line) to pick the item from the line.
Isnt a construction project also a "manufacturing" process, since this has the same combination of organising different materials, transportuing them to the "assembly line" (what we usually call the site!), then assembling all the components together on the assembly line/site, testing everything to make sure it is complete, and then handing it over to the buyer/Owner?
I am trying to demonstrate that the process of manufacturing a transportation machine is very similar to that of constructing a large building or civil works structure. Still no one with experience of building any transportation machines? No Dr. Who fans with plans of the TARDIS?
My view is boat/plane/train construction is manufacturing process, still involve people, material and process. The manufacture process is step by step piece by piece, so the flow can be planned, baselined, monitor and control.
P3 can be applied.
In manufacture process, each component/step may go wrong, like need special tools, fail in tests, etc. If any of one may affect the manufacturing time, claim raise.
Member for
21 years 4 monthsRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
Dear Asif,
Thanks for your further insight!
And I always thought that Purchase Orders were just for ordering stationery!
Cheers,
Stuart
www.rosmartin.com
Member for
21 years 1 monthRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
Dear Stuart
Yes, you are right in assuming that the basic process of construction of a buidling/civil projects and the construction/manufacturing/fabrication/supplying of a train will be the same.
In the train project, there will be mainly a P.O. (Purchase Order), which is the normal term used instead of a Letter or Award like in building works from the client to the supplier/fabrication in this case as compared to contractor in construciton industry. Same like L.A., the P.O. will tell the start date, the construction/fabrication period and the final delivery date of the train.
The Purchase order will usually be accompanied with the terms and conditions of the contract which will tell you in more detail regarding some other dates and the criteria for the inspection and testing of the crane e.g. FAT (factory acceptance test) of the equipments being used on the train which normally the client will need to witness and approve. In addition there may be the acceptance parameters defined in the contract for the efficiency of the train which will be checked during the commissioning stage like minimum speed etc.
There may be some payment milestones mentioned in the contract or P.O. which will tell you the milestones which need to be accpomplished before the payment can be made like manufacturing a major part of the train, delivery of some major eqpuipment etc.
In shipping industry, there is a surveyor which will inspect all the fabrication works being carried out on the ship and will also be involved in the inspection and testing of the equipment in the factory as well as during the commissioning stage of the ship. In train as well there must be some designer (same like in building/civil industry) who will be responsible for the design aspects of the crane and will confirm on the design parameters.
In short the process is same for both industries. Let me know if I am of any help to you in this regards.
Asif
Member for
21 years 4 monthsRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
Dear Asif,
Thanks for your input; your own experience supports my guess-work that the construction of a large transportation machine is very similar to the construction of a civil/building project.
I had been asked to carry out Claims Management on the construction of specialist trains, and I was looking to see how my own experience in building, civil and infrastructure works could be applied in this instance.
From a planning (and therefore from a claims) point of view, I think that that you have shown that there is a great deal of commonality between building trains, boats and planes on the one hand, and power stations, high-rises and industrial plants on the other!
Thanks
Stuart
www.rosmartin.com
Member for
21 years 1 monthRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
Stuart
I have worked on the construction of ships/patrol vessels and also have worked on various construction projects including the fabrication of container gantry cranes and power plants.
Basically the process in executing a civil/building project and constructing a ship is same. You have a contractual start date, construction period which includes the fabrication of different components of a ship and the installation of the equipment onboard ship in a specified period and there is a fixed contractual completion date. I dont see any difference between a civil/structural project and building a ship as long as the contractual matters are concerned in the execution of the project.
Stuart, what actually is your question and what are you looking for? If you can be a bit specific in your question, it may help in understanding and replying your question.
Asif
Member for
22 years 8 monthsRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
I do came across a project in Sydney in related to the millenium trains.
The project itself is a disaster, the first train was build in 2003 instead of the name suggested 2000.
Anyway,
They using P3 as their scheduling tool, it is very similar to a design & built contract in construction terms.
Firstly, each component in the train have there own design, then lead to the manufacturing period, assemble, PAT, SAT, T&C.
There is interrelationship between each sub-system, like the body of the train have to be confirm before you can fit in the size of the engin... all the electrical system have to complete their comsumption rating before the electrical supply unit design initiate.
So it is just a project on its own.
Alex
Member for
16 years 9 monthsRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
I’m not sure it right or not, just some thought.
The major difference between "Manufacure a transport machine" and Contrsuction is the degree of automatic and process flow.
On degree of automatic, in Manufacturing less human more robot and opposite in Construction. However, in Japan, they have constructed a building by large amount of robots. Most components are pre-fabricated eith on-site or off-site (like Manufacturing, small components are manufactured by others or at other locations). In Hong Kong, the prefabrication covers interal wall partition, external wall, staircase, etc. These arrangement are quite similiar between 2 industries.
For the process flow, in Construction, the final product is in one specific location. What I means is the building is at there, the wall is at that particular location and level, never change. The whole construction process is in a fixed location with people is moving around, shift from one point to another. But in Manufacturing, may same as Construction or may not. For the ’may not’ type, I think the product is flow from one spot to another. Each spot, more raw components add-on to form the product. Workers just stay in a fix location (production line) to pick the item from the line.
Hope let you have idea.
mktse
Member for
21 years 4 monthsRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
Hi .mktse,
Isnt a construction project also a "manufacturing" process, since this has the same combination of organising different materials, transportuing them to the "assembly line" (what we usually call the site!), then assembling all the components together on the assembly line/site, testing everything to make sure it is complete, and then handing it over to the buyer/Owner?
I am trying to demonstrate that the process of manufacturing a transportation machine is very similar to that of constructing a large building or civil works structure. Still no one with experience of building any transportation machines? No Dr. Who fans with plans of the TARDIS?
Stuart
www.rosmartin.com
Member for
23 years 8 monthsRE: Trains and Boats and Planes...
My view is boat/plane/train construction is manufacturing process, still involve people, material and process. The manufacture process is step by step piece by piece, so the flow can be planned, baselined, monitor and control.
P3 can be applied.
In manufacture process, each component/step may go wrong, like need special tools, fail in tests, etc. If any of one may affect the manufacturing time, claim raise.
Hope help.