Kris,

AACE International has Recommended Practices called [37R-06 SCHEDULE LEVELS OF DETAIL – AS APPLIED IN EPC].  I use this AACE RP in conversation with management, contractors, peers because it puts the entire team on the same understanding. 

In the details you will find close to what most of the users described above.  However, the common message throughout the industry states that Level 3 is the optimal level to perform CPM [Critical Path Method].  Level 3 can be described as the level that has sufficient decomposition in detailed activities to perform CPM.  If you build a Level 4, 5, etc... you can end up with redundant logic, high logic density, merging hot spots, diverging hot spots, aka "noise in your schedule".  The use of the software is fit for purpose.  If you need to track timesheets in your schedule, then CPM is likely not what your after but can use the software to perform your intent.  If you need a true CPM, then don't fall into the trap of more detail the better. 

 

http://www.advancedplanninganalytics.com/

Hi Kris,

In addition to the other's comments.

It is actually depends on the purpose you want to established on your schedule.
For me, it could be in any levels, as long as you reach to the point of being the activity is measurable and quantifiable, you may then stop on that level.

Hope this could help.

 

Thanks.

Clint

Jaco,

It is clear to me that a level 1,2,3,4 schedule is not necessarly related to a WBS 1,2,3,4. In looking at your definition of a level 4 schedule where would you put those various task & milestones in a WBS structure that did not have any task? Once you have the level 1,2,3,4 schedule created how do you update % complete on those task?

Don’t get me wrong, I like your definition of a level 1,2,3,4 schedule! If level 4 is a contractors schedule do you simply copy and replace the exsisting schedule every update cycle? Or asked another way how do you incorporate a level 4 schedule into a level 3 schedule? The reason I ask is that if you have exsisting task in level 3 that represents a body of work, how do I intergrate the contractors level 4 schedule with those task

Kelly

You have an activity "A". You find that it is better to break down the activity "A" into A1, A2, A3 etc. Normally you will need to break the link in "A" and reassign it again in details level. But if your link at level "A" is correct and you don’t want to link and relink at detail level, there is an easy way to do it.

Change the Activity type for "A" from task to WBS. Both A and its children (A1, A2 etc) should have the same WBS code. When you F9 the programme, you will find that "A" is now a roll up of its children activities.

Hermie,

Thank you for your reply, if you can please help to identify the differents between the two product please. For planner, P3 or Open plan is only a tool, more important is the knowledge. I suggest not to jump ship before you understand the ship you about to jump into, it maybe a sinking ship.

P3 is so widely use in the industry, there must be a reason. Can you please share some of your experiences with the two product.

It will help us to make decision rather than just jump into conclusion of use another software because it cannot do a particular thing what we asking for.

I think in software world, there is lots of features that different people needs and want and no software can cover the lot. If we can list out the can and cant between the product. It will give a clear picture to all planners.

Of course we came across different product every date, and we have to make the decision what exactly we asking for before we buy the product.

Some of the function I love P3 to incorporate like Time location function, better grahic report, unlimited user code ...... the list just go on. ... however, we have to distingish between want and needs.

Regards

Alex

Hermie,

For me your post seem to be a bit favored since you are from Welcom - Open Plan.

If you clarify that I think will give P3 a fair go and to its user.

Alex

Kris

What you can do is make your LVL 4 Activity’s hammocks and then creat new activity below them Or you put a Filter on the LVL 4 Activity’s

The correct way is to replace them. Be Carefull because this will mean more detail & tons of logic. As for your resources if it is different resources you will need to split them. If you have verious Resources per activity why dont you Organise by Resource as well this might also help.

What type of Project is it Maybe their is a easier way. As a matter of interst What is your lvl 4 activity duration & how many activity’s do you have.




Cheers

Hi,

My understanding about the levels of schedule is as follows:

1. There are normally five levels.
2. Levels are based on the level of management and the level of details it contains.
3. Level 1 gives overall picture of the project.This level provides activties at the highest level of WBS,which is usually at project level.The level contains major milestones, Overall duration activties of the project(start and finish of the project). These can be monitored at this level regularly.
4. Level 2 schedule involves summarized or single activities in high level WBS i.e Milestones,Submmittals,design, construction,testing and commissioning.In this level,it is usually shown that when each item starts and finish only, this level does not contains the details e.g.Design item will have start and finish only without any futher breakdown.
5. Level 3 is usually provides reasonable details for the Level 2 schedules. These schedules are used for regular monitoring by the people on the field.
6.Level 4 & 5 schedules provides the greater details than the Level 3 schedules and usually used by the people who actually to he work.These shedules are advisable as these provides no flexibility to the work being carried out and very difficult to be followed.

I hope this can clarify.

Thanks & regards

Dinesh

To me,
Level 1 is contractual milestone dates.
Level 2.
Contains EPC split into discplines.
E - Civil, Structural, Piping, Process etc.
P - Onshore and Offshore.
C - Nearly same as E.
Level 3.
E - Engineering Control List incorporated.
P - Breakdown of Items.
C - Method of Statement of Erection.
Level 4.
Resource loading and actual working version. S-Curve and period performance.

Dear Jimmy,
I am so pleased to be able to contribute to your ability to copy & paste.

With kind regards,

Stuart

Kris,

In my experience of complex Process and Industrial Plants, a Level 1 Schedule will only contain basic outline information, such as start dates, completion dates, Milestones, and will have a single bar chart for say, engineering work; another bar chart for equipment purchase and delivery; another bar chart for construction, and another for say, commissioning work. The Level 1 Schedule is often just one or two sheets of A4 incorporated into the Contract documentation, and sometimes is called the Master Schedule.
The Level 1 Schedule will not show the CP.

The Level 2 Schedule is the schedule that the Contractor is required to develop from the Level 1 schedule, (sometimes within 30 days) and it will have the main activities usually based on the WBS. The Level 2 schedule will be expected to show the project’s primary CP.

The Level 3 Schedule - which is usually used at the working level - is sufficiently detailed to show all activities required in the execution of the project, and it will contain the CP and any sub-CPs. The Level 3 Schedule will contain all activities from start to finish of the project.

The Level 4 Schedule will be a further expansion of the Level 3, but often it will only be for a specific part of the project and sometimes only for a specific duration - it will not show the overall duration of the project, but it will focus on a particularly complex area of work, especially where it relates to specialist work. The Level 4 is also used for working with subcontractors.

I hope that this helps,

Stuart

www.rosmartin.com

LEVEL 1 would be the final product, such as Building etc.....

LEVEL 2: Engineering, Procurement, Construction phases

LEVEL 3: Disciplinewise break-down of the LEVEL 2, for example: Construction phase -> Foundation, Structural works,Architectural works, External works, M&E works, Testing&Commissioing etc

LEVEL 4: Further break-down of the LEVEL 3, for example: Architectural works-> Doors/windows, Blockwall, Wall Tile, Floor Tile, Ceiling, Pastering, Painting, etc......


LEVEL 2 or LEVEL 3: Summary of progress at this level required for clien’t submission

LEVEL 4: Summary of progress at this level for our own monitoring purpose(Sub-Contractor’s works etc. where applicable)

IMO, I dont believe there is a right or wrong definition.

Generally, I would take Level 1 as a summary containing mainly strategic milestones (Contract Start, 1st Submission of Design Info, Start on Site, 1st delivery of Main Plant etc..)

Level 2 would be a summary by discipline (i.e Civil Design, Mech Design etc)

Level 3 would be a further subdivision of Civil Design (Transormer Bases, Bunding Arrangements etc)

Level 4 would get down to actual measurable tasks or outputs.


As I said no right or wrong answer and a lot depends on your project/client.

The key thing is these are not seperate schedules but all support each other so that the high level can be interrogated to the lower levels of detail, and the resultant effect of delay(or improvement) in one area can be assessed as to the impact on another area.