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% of Progress for total project

34 replies [Last post]
Wed, 2005-09-14 11:04
Vishwas Bindigana...
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Hi Planners,

I have developed a method which I want to you guys/gals to rack your brains and check if it is right or wrong, and, input your worthy comments / analyses.

I have a project programme for a construction project of 4000 activities. There are no resources loaded and no cost loading, too. The programme is updated every week. Since, in primavera, summarisation of the whole project does not give the percentage of planned / achieved in two decimals, the updates with a frequency of 1 week will not make a major difference to planned / achieved works significantly especially in the early stages of the project. So, I have added the total of the percentages of all the activities i.e. 4000 x 100 = 400,000 %. Now, lets say, after 10 weeks into the project there are 100 activities which are 100% and 50 activities which are 40% and 10 activities which are 20%. Therefore, the total percentage of the achieved activities after 10 weeks of the project would be 100x100+50x40+10x20 = 12,200 %. The weighted of the percentages of the activities would be 12,200 / 400,000 = 3.05%. (Note: The achieved percentages of the activites are dependant on the durations of the project.)

So, would I be correct in assuming that the "Physical Progress" of the entire project would be 3.05% of the total project as on the 10th week of the project? If so, how accurate would this method be?

Can you people "pull your hair out" on this and give me an answer at the earliest?

Regards,

Vishwas
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Replies

Thu, 2005-09-22 10:50
#1
Edgar Ariete
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How are you Rolyn?

Sorry, I didn’t mean it. I’m just trying to add some spice.
It’s fun to read the posts of the radical Planners in here.

I’m not as big as you are. i’m just a chick coming from the rain, hungry & wet, & trying to get some intellegent informations from the big boys.. and thinking that this is open...i’m just trying to be me.

Thanks Rolyn, Raja & Alex

By the way, my answer for the Subject is 100% if the project is completed.

thanks
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Thu, 2005-09-22 00:35
#2
Alex Wong
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Raja

I fully understand the reason of why client want to know financial information on top of progress information. But what we talk about in this thread is "% of Progress for total project"

I am not ignoring the importance of $. But how to express progress in its best form. Awaiting your input and demonstration of express progress in $ spend.

if I offend anyone, I apologise, however, my concern is "planner"IMHO (In my humble opinion) should be the one who know the importance of correct representation of true physical progress and reflected in the best possible way. We are not QS or accountant, time and progress should be in our heart.

I had said enough, hopefully we can stop for a while and look at the big picture of what is the best way to representing physical progress.

Any comments are welcom

Alex
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Wed, 2005-09-21 23:36
#3
Rolyn Jalea
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Hi Edgar,

Bro, please try to use words which can’t hurt your fellow planners, what I’ve seen is that your becoming hostile my friend... We are here to try help each other out. They just try to reply on this thread based on their knowledge, experience & opinion regarding the questions asked, and in any way could help those planners who need it. I believe there’s no need to start questions just trying to outsmart others. I like this website bro, and those people behind this site had helped me once when I encountered a serious problem regarding my programme.
With regards to your reply, IMO graphical presentation, together with tabular report on how you get the progress is still the best tool while presenting your progress to the Client... and right now, our client is paying us our interim monthy valuation based on that.
For the contract, there are 3 selections on how to get a contract:
1) By client nomination (which you have said by trust)
2) By becoming the lowest bidder
3) If the bid price don’t have a big margin with respect to bidders, most of the time, client choose the contractor with the best background and good reputation with regards to that field.

PEACE!!!!!

Rolyn
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Wed, 2005-09-21 23:31
#4
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Alex,
I try to explain the best I could, what I mean,
1.Client very particular about claims that come from contractors. Their worry is to made payment more then progress at site(as per report not as per actual at site). Basically they already plan their payment schedule (by monthly or by milestone).
2.Client very worried if they already paid their contractor as per schedule, but the contractor cannot deliver their commitment to project like supply tools / equipment, labour etc on time. Somtimes worker strike cause not being paid or late payment by their contractor. This will make project delay and cause more money to find new labour or another contractor before client can back charge the contractor.
I hope this will do......
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Wed, 2005-09-21 23:15
#5
Alex Wong
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Raja

""
Hi Alex, this is my opinion, evrybody can make their opinion isnt it? on matter right or wrong, what i think is...""

Please dont take it personal, I only state my though as well please share your view of reporting progress in $ terms. Very interest to see how. Especially how to compare with plan expenditure without disclosing actual expenditure (Contractor not client).


"2. Believe me or not Client did care about dollar and cents, a) They aware on evry claim being submit, what they afraid is overclaim "

Are we talk about reporting progress - yes they do need financial report. To reporting progress??

"and the status is not as per progress they claim. It will burst their budget as per their plan to be."

How to calculate their (Please clarify who’s budget) budget variance without actuals - is that mean you have to disclose your actuals or their actuals. If it is their actuals (the client) so how they can predict are you (the contractor) going to burst or not??

"b) they care about their contrators from losing control their budget, may cause bankruptcy or burst their budget, its make more difficult to control the project."

Is the client control your project budget or U (The project management team), or the client control their budget?

Reporting progress is reporting contractor progress information - information that the client dont have.

Alex
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Wed, 2005-09-21 22:51
#6
Alex Wong
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Raja I am only express my opinion, may be my english is no good at all because I dont understand a word you said in your last post and also can you please explain what you mean by "dollar & cents to report progress" Alex
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Wed, 2005-09-21 22:11
#7
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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wei ni hao alex,
do i say any (confiential)report... to be exposed. read first lah friend then we discuss.
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Wed, 2005-09-21 19:23
#8
Alex Wong
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Dear All,

It is an interesting concept of disclosing internal financial information to the client. In my project management life, it is very rare to do such thing as regular progress reporting except "cost plus" type projects.
IMHO it is rare because
1. Client cannot verify your $ report and statement - I think they are not allow to see your accounting system plus all the invoices. If they are the one managing the cost why do they need you (Contractor). And if you disclose this information your margin is exposed to the client.

2. Even they can verify the reports; I think in most contracts, the project manager is responsible for managing budget, cash flow, procurement, risk... It is not the client to bare that risk and responsibility. As I said unless it is a cost plus project, I don’t see a reason why report regularly on cost you spend.

The only occasion I regularly reporting the financial situation is because the project is in real trouble.
As a joint solution, one of the activities is subsidised by the client and the financial reporting of that particular activity is report regularly to the client.
Cheers
Alex
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Wed, 2005-09-21 10:57
#9
Edgar Ariete
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Hi to All,

I had too much of your esperanto(s), but thanks anyway.

We can get all the information we need from this infobahn. My question is how can you make planning the simpliest you can?...for any Client who doesn’t know anything about intellegent machines to understand. Pictures? Will the client pay you by just showing him pictures? Figures maybe,
but how? Show him graphics blah blah blah, we’re living in a real world...Remember, you got the contract because of TRUST.

Thanks
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Wed, 2005-09-21 05:44
#10
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Alex, this is my opinion, evrybody can make their opinion isnt it? on matter right or wrong, what i think is...
1. the project team more prefer no document at all, they didnt like burden with paper, they more intrested in construct and execution, with or without planner they still can manage the project, maybe cause bad experience having a planner which doing history reporting but thanks to contract and auditor make planner very valuable as reporter and compiler.(But not all...some planner)I believe most of planner in PP can drive the project.
2. Believe me or not Client did care about dollar and cents, a) They aware on evry claim being submit, what they afraid is overclaim and the status is not as per progress they claim.It will burst their budget as per their plan to be. b) they care about their contrators from losing control their budget, may cause bankruptcy or burst their budget, its make more difficult to control the project.
There is more we can discuss....but step by step we try to discuss.
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Tue, 2005-09-20 22:28
#11
Alex Wong
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Hi there,

1. Different from Software and manual planning
* Reuseability - In paper you have to draw the logic each time you change it. In a software you just update it as it go
* Calculation power, you can draw a 100 activity network using pen and paper, but you cannot do it when it is 10000 or 50,000 activity.
*Accuracy - Human are bound to have errors


2. Picture - client is not interest how much you spend rather how much you built. A picture can tell a thousand words.
3. Earn Value with Weighted factor
4. CLK Airport Projects - 3 contracts

HTH

Alex
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Tue, 2005-09-20 13:32
#12
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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HI Edgar,
well this is my answer.
1. the diffrent is Paper and ink.
2. Using Dollar and cents.
3. Using how many numbers.
4. Anywhere.
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Tue, 2005-09-20 12:56
#13
Vladimir Liberzon
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1. No difference. The same logic. But you will not be able to produce manual calculations in the reasonable time.
2. We usually start with the teaching of our clients.
3. We use physical units of measure like meters, tons, cubic meters, etc.
4. We use physical measures in all projects.
Best Regards.
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Tue, 2005-09-20 12:54
#14
Andrew Donlan
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Try using Milestones Professional - www.kidasa.com
This is a fantastic high level reporting tool and interfaces with MSP and Access
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Tue, 2005-09-20 11:49
#15
Edgar Ariete
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Hi there,

How are u Vishwas B? I have some questions for the big Planners out there (If I may).

1. What’s the difference between the conventional (manual)planning & the most highly sophisticated planning (using blah blah blah softwares) in terms of principles without considering the speed of the preparation?

2. How do you present, or how do you convince a client who doesn’t know anything about computers (but with a billion dollar on his account) with your computer generated reports?

3. What’s the most accurate unit of measure you use in your planning in terms of practicality?

4. Which project did you use it?
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Tue, 2005-09-20 06:10
#16
Vishwas Bindigana...
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Hi Planners,

Thanks very much for your feed-back. My original post was a question in ’Lateral Thought’ and not to be applied in practise.

Happy Planning

Vishwas
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Sun, 2005-09-18 07:06
#17
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Vishwas

The percentage arrive in your original query does not represent "overall physical progress". The physical progress of an activity is the quantities installed divided by the extimated total quantities.

But then you have 4,000 activities with different percent progress as the construction project goes on. You need to find a common denominator that relates to physical progress to get the equivalent percentage of each activities.

The question is what is the common denominator that relates nearly to physical progress. We planners know this. Am I correct? ??

Cheers,

Charlie
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Sun, 2005-09-18 02:59
#18
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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as your request, simple sample....using duration
Description Wtg Dur
Project (XXX-XXXX)
1 Activites 1 ---- 7.78 ---- 7
2 Activites 2 ---- 11.11 ---- 10
3 Activites 3 ---- 11.11 ---- 10
4 Activites 4 ---- 22.22 ---- 20
5 Activites 5 ---- 22.22 ---- 20
6 Activites 6 ---- 5.56 ---- 5
7 Activites 7 ---- 5.56 ---- 5
8 Activites 8 ---- 7.78 ---- 7
9 Activites 9 ---- 3.33 ---- 3
10 Activites 10 ---- 3.33 ---- 3
Total ---- 100 ---- 90
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Sat, 2005-09-17 11:51
#19
Sriram Iyer
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Hello,
It is very simple.

Activity a = Total qty = Convert qty into Manhours using productivity - Hrs for the activity

Activity b = Total qty = Convert qty into Manhours using productivity - Hrs for the activity

Workout the total hrs = u can get the weightage of the individual activities & total activities.
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Wed, 2005-09-14 14:10
#20
Philip Jonker
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Hi Vishwas,

Bernardt is right, add resources in manhours and export to a spreadsheet in excel and calculate the percentages there. It is simple and accurate. However, I do not see the the reason for two decimals, maybe there is room for one, but the room for error is rather great as progress is a rather subjective matter, and as such not very scientific, and as percentage is already a two decimal issue, why try for four in the case of an inaccurate/subjective science? The same thing applies to costing, where you work to the nearest thousand.

I have people reporting to me on a weekly basis, using two decimals, and I do not believe a word of it.

Regards

Philip

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Wed, 2005-09-14 13:30
#21
Edgar Ariete
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Hi,

Is using manhours (as unit of measure) most accurate?
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Wed, 2005-09-14 12:52
#22
Bernard Ertl
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Add resources and use manhours.

Bernard Ertl
eTaskMaker Project Planning Software
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Wed, 2005-09-14 12:44
#23
Edgar Ariete
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Hi,

I suggest you calculate it manually everytime you update progress just to make sure (don’t use any machine). Yes, Raja is right.

Or you can try another formula with lesser zeros...so that if your progress will result to negative(-), you won’t be surprised...

Keep on planning anyway...
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Wed, 2005-09-14 12:25
#24
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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if i not mistaken, u are counting activities, the activities is not showing u are ahead or behind, Its showing how many activities is complete. To show u very productive u have to measure overall duration = 100% because not every activities have same durtaion.
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Wed, 2005-09-14 11:49
#25
Steven Oliver
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In the absence of any other measure, I have previously used the ratio of the sum of remaining duration/sumof original durations.


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Wed, 2005-09-14 11:27
#26
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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are this or real or testing sombody..... U make a joke isnt it...

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Wed, 2005-09-14 15:31
#27
Shahzad Munawar
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% age Progress in round figure is acceptable to each Client so two decimal or four does not matter.

Further Manhours is best yardstick to measure progress.
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Wed, 2005-09-14 23:10
#28
Zhang Haixiang
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Hi,

the way u use is just counting activities.
the best way is to load manhours,if you are not going to do this,try to use duration (as Steven and Sukumaran mentioned)
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Wed, 2005-09-14 21:16
#29
Se de Leon
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Hi Vishwas,

For me there’s no specific answer to your question. It will really depend on your appreciation on how to use %Progress of your project.

In your case, each activity is equal regardless of how long or how hard you will do an activity. It does not represent the effort to do each activity. Using resources and duration(if duration calculation is correct not a guess), you are weighing each activity based on how it will influenced your programme in terms of effort and scheduling. I don’t normally use cost when weighing progress. It could sometimes be very confusing.

I could use your formula if ever the nature of the project is as such. But i will never use it in construction projects where productivity rates are defined and how hard or how easy the effort to do activities is very obvious.

To me, % complete is only indicative. There’s no absolute correctness on this issue. The only absolute is if it is 0% and if it is 100% In between, it’s just an indication.

Cheers,
Se

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Wed, 2005-09-14 22:21
#30
Sen Moc
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Vishwas,

Actually, what you did was you have calculated progress by considering equal weights to each activity. Unless all of your activities have approximately equal weights, your progress calculation is acceptable otherwise it’s not correct & inaccurate.

Let me show you an example considering only three (3) activities, for simplicity:

Activity 1 (orig. duration = 1 day; 100% complete)
Activity 2 (orig. duration = 1 day; 100% complete)
Activity 3 (orig. duration = 10 days; 4 days remaining, thus 60% complete)

Vishwas Method:

Sum of all the Percentages = 1*100%+1*100%+1*100% = 300%
Sum of Achieved Activities = 1*100%+1*100%+1*60% = 260%
Percent Progress = 260/300 = 86.67%

“Weighted” Method:

Sum of all the Weight Factors (considering duration) = 1+1+10 = 12
Sum of Weighted Progress = 1*1.0+1*1.0+10*0.60 = 8.0
Percent Progress = 8/12 = 66.67%

Evidently, from the above presentation, Vishwas Method doesn’t provide an accurate status of the project.
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Wed, 2005-09-14 23:33
#31
Bill Guthrie
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Vishwas B
This must be a joke. or

You are qualifying numbr of activities without resources or weights. what you have presented is only a exercise in time managment. You cannot give the weighting for a large long time expensive activy the same as a mickey mouse activity and have a schedule worth being called a scheule.
in your sample for example
procure a compressor, value 15 million us dollars, 18 months to procure and manufacture

and

install light fixture value 10 dollars,off the shelf item.install 1 day.

and you give the same value weighting to both ???????or do you weigh 18 months relative to 1 day. then this is only a exercise in time without resources.

cheers bill
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Wed, 2005-09-14 23:44
#32
Alex Wong
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Hi

Its all dependent on the amount of time you have and your client requirement.

Remember this, a schedule is not a precision machine. Not like a accountant looking @ his/her balance sheet. The accuracy is depending whether it will help your project manager to manage the project and your client to give a good judgement of the progress. Any methodology is better than no methodology. It is better to have some calculation than non. If you just do not have the resource and time to add all resource and update per activity per week. It is better to have some measurement than non.

HTH

Alex
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Wed, 2005-09-14 20:29
#33
Sukumaran Subaram...
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Vishwas,

You can use duration as a dummy resources and assign to each activities. (i.e. resource = duration and units = day)

After update the percent complete column, export the infomation to excel or any database files to calculate the progress with 2 decimal points.

Regards.
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Wed, 2005-09-21 18:32
#34
Gwen Blair
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Got a Contract because of trust?

This is not the world I know, live in and work in.

Get real! You PROBABLY got the contract because you were the cheapest.

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