Andrew and Bill (the original poster)and all

Ah… okay… back to the original topic…

Yes, I totally agree with you, software is or should be secondary in the recruitment of planners. However, as you have suggested and Mike earlier agrees, some sectors/clients of the UK Construction Industry have aligned themselves with Primavera, in particular I think the ‘heavy-side’; rail, petro-chem and highways.

As they have to have Primavera planners, and in UK I think those up to speed are relatively few, so their advertisements are more likely to state P5/P6 planners are required. Most advertisements, in my experience, outside of those sectors tend not to be so specific about software. I think therefore that the paradox is because Primavera planners are relatively few those who do need them have to specify that and so it does appear that they are in great demand whereas in the majority of the UK construction industry that just isn’t so.

The CIOB survey (http://www.ciob.org.uk/filegrab/TM_report_full_web.pdf?ref=880) suggested that 21% of participants used Primavera etc and 25% Powerproject etc. Personally I question the veracity of that data – that survey also says that 52% use MS Project and anyone who is involved in the UK Construction Industry knows from experience that is just not the case. My own survey (Analysis Paralysis, (2007) 23 Const. L.J. No. 6) showed the most frequently used software was Powerproject 65%, followed by Primavera 17% with MS Project at 8%.

On purely numerical terms then, even taking the CIOB data, it would suggest that there ought to be more opportunities for planners who can use Powerproject.

David/Mike,
Thanks for your comments I was not trying to say that Primavera was better than powerproject. I just added some personal prefference. I agree that in most cases Primavera is overcomplicated and too expensive for most construction planning. In fact I would say that P6 has moved backward from P3 in some areas of functionality.
The main point of my post was to answer the original question aboutlack of opportunity for powerproject users.

My point being that if you can plan then you can do it using any software, although you do have to learn how to use it, the principles are the same. A bit like changing from a right hand drive automatic car to a left hand drive manual.

Andrew

I am not offended but I never quite trust statements such as "feel more consistent", what is needed is some objectivity when making such broad statements. It reminds me a little of … an impressionistic rather than a calculated and rational assessment is not sufficient ….

We have had this type of discussion many times here before (see here for instance: http://www.planningplanet.com/forum/forum_post.asp?fid=1&Cat=11&Top=2917). As far as I am aware the results of independent tests and surveys that I have seen show that Powerproject out performs Primavera every time (let me know if you know of any independent data that says to the contrary).

Of course, like any software, Primavera also has faults and can be a bit flaky. Take a look here, http://www.astadev.com/democentre/asta-powerproject/compare-with-primave... to see what Asta has to say on the subject (not an independent view!).

Similarly, as you are involved in UK Building Works, I am sure you will also recognise that in our industry Powerproject is the most popular project managements software around, and it cost a quarter of the cost Primavera.

I have to use whatever software comes into our office, so I regularly use Powerproject, Primavera and MS Project and, in my humble opinion, Primavera is a pig to use, an unwieldy beast for use on discrete projects. One of my major criticisms of Planning Planet is that is the de facto Primavera helpdesk. Just have a look how many pages are taken up by ‘how do I’ type questions, they overspill in to every category – maybe that is an indication of how unfriendly the software is (or how expensive training is?).

On the subject of training maybe the reason why tasks and bars in Powerproject do not always move as you think should when pressing the F9 key is because you have not checked the reschedule scope and options and are just expecting the reschedule to mimic what Primavera does? Remember also, in Powerproject some options that affect rescheduling can be switched on or off for individual tasks not just globally as in Primavera.

Regards

David

Hi David

Please return the complements to Ian.

Why not get him on PP

Best regards

Mike Testro

Mike,

You’ve reflected what I have been saying for a number of years.

Brain first, software second.

GUI = Graphic User Interface...e.g. Windows, not MSDos, Artemis Views, not 6000

Anything I can do to further the Analyst/Planner/Scheduler argument, please ask.

David.

Hi David

I am part of a CIOB work group putting together a guide to best practice in contruction time management.

An inordinant ammount of committee time has been spent in deciding on the definition of Planner and Scheduler.

In the end it came down to:

Planner - the person who can build the project.

Scheduler - the person who can put the planners plan into the software.

A Planner can aslo be a Scheduler.

A Scheduler can never be a planner.

By the way - what is GUI-Type software?

Hi R.

Take a look at the PEO website for the full results of the software survey - both from the UK and worldwide.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Mike,

It seems you don’t have marketing plan for the Middle East, especially Dubai, construction capital of the world as noted here in PP.

Regards,
R. Catalan