Vladimir,

Something got mixed while editing my prior posting, hope you don’t mind, sorry.

Anoon

I had a very good experience with Micro Planner for the MAC is software worth considering. It is good somewhere else people didn’t got hooked on Primavera. The obsession with Primavera in the USA is backfiring at us, the end user.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir

Download a copy of Micro Planner from our UK web page
www.microplanning.co.uk

RE my comment re using the float is that once you have had the program allocate the resource on the Resource Start Date and Finish on the Resource Finish Date, if you unilaterally decide to not perform the task at those dates because there is Remaining Total Float ( a name which has been in use since 1963, when we invented it at ICT/ICL, so it is not surprising you may not have heard of it) You will now cause a problem with the resources, because they were allocated, lets say between day 6 until day 9 on task 2, all the remaining resource at the those times has been allocated to the other tasks which occur at that same time.
So two things may occur, you now waste the resource because you do not execute the allocated task and you could have done some other task which could have been allocated, but because it is lower down the scheduling queue it was delayed because it had Total Float.

If you say well you do not mind delaying an already Resource Scheduled Task, then wehy run Resource Scheduling.

Micro Planner allows the user to schedule resources in such a way that the Deadline (ie the Critical Path is maintained as no task is ever delayed once it has run out of Total Float, so the task MUST be scheduled even if it causes an overload.
The alternative is your project is in the middle of Russia somewhere, where there is not sufficient resources avcailable to waste, so you are Resource Limited. Thus if a task does not get scheduled because there is no more resource, and it is critical, it will be delayed.

TRhe whole point of resource scheduling is to ensure you can performed all or nearly all the work required using a specific number or variable number of resources. So we get either overloads which means you know exactly how much more resource your require, or because you are stuck in the middle of Russia for example, how long the project will be delayed because of the shortage of one or more trades.

It was very popular several years ago to have multi skilled tradesmen. now in X-Pert we can use group resources which can be allocated and any one who is free at the time can be allocated.

Unfortunately or Hooray, MSP is absolutley hopeless at Resource Scheduling and consultants make a very good living fiddling and manipulating the data to try and force a result

Total Float is defined as the amount of time you can delay a task without delaying the project thats all.

Use of constraints causes all sorts of other mathmatical problems in MSP.

Primavera 3 and 6 are not exactly the worlds best at Resourcing either especially when SS and FF get used between tasks, but then thats another story

When you download Micro Planner remember our paradigm is to create all our data in a critical path, we do not use a Gantt as input because a Gantt is output and was defined so back in 1964, and the reasons haven’t changed, just an increase in bad software :-)

Oops nearly forgot there is a Quikstart pdf manual built in to the downlaod which will get you going, enjoy

Raf

Anoon

It just so happens that there are two of us with the same initials

I would suspect that there are several hundred in Planning Planet with the same initials.

I am an Australian of Italian parentage and the proper spelling of mu Christian name is Raffaelle.
Far to complicated for out Anglo Saxon friends who converted it to Raphael. I could not care less as most Italians Raphaels use ph (as did the Painter)
and the Spanish Rafaels use the F

I own Micro Planning International Asia Pacific as well as interests in the US and UK and German companies we have been going for over thirty years (started in June 1978) We write Project Management software which works and doesn’t cause the heated debates most other products seem too.
Better than that we also offer a first clsss support service to our clients, so in the unlikely case of our software not performing, we fix it and / or supply work arounds.

I am not claiming my software does everything that everybody else claims they can.

We do what we do extremely well and most importantly we meet the arithmetic criteria originally created by Kelly and Walker.

If you are such a sceptic, why don’t you try it.

The other Rafael was one of our original Macintosh users, and as we find when they have to use another product, they get frustrated at the inability of the software they have to use to produce the correct result without the hassles that X-Pert for Windows allows you to do.

Raf

Anoon

Very Droll !
I haven’’t heard that for at least forty years

Raf

KISS only works with an ASS, ASS means - Apply So-called System or Application of Systematic Strategy.

Now, you can all KISS my ASS!

cheers!

Folks

WELL I suppose it was about time I entered this discussion as Micro Planner is being talked about and how it does things.

First let me state, There is NO software in the WORLD that will ever do what the Planner & Scheduler perceives they need and want in order to provide a schedule which once having been created works for ever providing the results we all dream about.

Every single project is unique !, in fact that from my old and weary memory is how we describe a Project, it is a Unique endeavour with a Start and an End.

That is all there is too it !

Now the problem starts when we as Planners and Schedulers try to create a schedule which represents.. as we see it .. the truth.

Because the Client is not 100% sure of what they want, they create scopes, charters, specifications, drawing and all sorts of paraphenalia which they hope represents what they want. Plus to cover anything they have forgotten or is unclear, there is the CONTRACT, which runs counter to anything sensible and logical.

So we come along and try to immediately bang it into a piece of software which we love or hate (or both)and produce a schedule which is meant to represent Time, Budgets, Costs deliverables etc etc. The end date as per the Contract

But of course it doesn’t, never will. If you like me find yourself having a couple of days in which to take the scrappy Tender schedule we put together in the pious hope of winning the bid, (but don’t spend too much time and money on preparing the schedule, say management)you start to make compromises, the Project Director immediately without any reference to any schedule will direct you to the answer as they know it.

Worst still you will find yourself estimating durations for tasks which will be actually carried out by a sub contractor, you will make assumptions about the amount of resource they will allocate to your project, as well as likely costs. Have you any idea how much of the FF&E is imported and what price the dollar today for installation in three years time.

And all the time you are banging in constraints, without any real idea how the software handles multiple conflicting constraints, because we have to meet the contracted dates

Using all the clever bells and whistles that Vendor "X" has in their PM software to try and produce a half decent schedule which will actually stand up and last the week is pointless.

Basically unless you keep it really really simple, and do not try finde one of the 25 thousand combinations of switches that P5 and P6 can do for you to finesse the schedule, (and lot of other software tools too)you will only be a software jockey never a planner and scheduler.
You MUST be able to arrive at a Critical Path which has the Contract End Date, logically and WITHOUT a single constraint

Many years ago there was a small group of really brilliant Planners and Schedulers here in Melbourne (Australia)in about 1968 - 73 George Pockett and Associates was the name, who only ever did their P & S by hand calculations.

And I tell you they did a great job, it was the pressure of non planners in the construction companies who pushed for Computer produced schedules on a weekly basis, that killed them off.

Whats the point I hear you all cry !

The point is that all the foregoing posts regarding whether this software does this or that, is actually meaningless.

I love Vladimir Liberzon’s Spider package for all the things it can do, BUT I do not actually need any of them to produce a great working schedule.

The ability to assign crews, simulating working in shifts, work volumes resource productivities etc etc, is fantastic.

I wish I could use all these wonderful things on my current $AUD 500 million construction project, but the problem is that the moment I have to ascertain from the sub contractor what, when, how many, who will he put on the task, he can’t tell me. So far after a year I do not think one out of 76 subbies has been within 25% of what they thought they would do as to what actually is going on.

We run a very thin total project schedule with four weekly sub schedules and six monthly over view schedules to cover the four years of the project.

Simple multiple schedules using arrow diagrams and precedence diagram mixed with the interfaces between to cope with the drivers.

Of course we use Micro Planner X-Pert for Windows, BUT, I have to report in MSP2003.

Text Data Interchange is how we do it, so we use MSP for the pictures so loved by management and XPW for doing the actual work and resource driven schedules.

XPW has been going for thirty years without too much fuss and bells and whistles. It just does Critical Path, fully Resourced, and Costed, very simply !

BTW we also run full EVPM through XPW.

KISS is the only way

Well that’s my view

Raf

Vladimir,

By the way “piscolabis” (snacks) can be better than desert, we also can have appetizers (Hors d’œuvre) for a start these can be caviar.

For “piscolabis” I am thinking about true critical path after resource leveling, like nacho chips with homemade guacamole. Maybe the sample job can be used for these purposes, I will investigate this unique functionality during the weekend, as you know my old notebook died and I am using my son’s notebook, he is claiming for some computer time.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir,

Where is the functionality for Ladder Activities and progressive feed? Using Spider Demo I want to mimic the effect of stopping work in one ladder rung and see the effect through all of the dependent rungs, not just the end event.

Links, Lags and Ladders

“This is similar to the operation of SS and FF links, however, from an analytical viewpoint, the major advantage of a ladder is if work stops on one rung, the delay is automatically flowed through all of the dependent rungs, not just the end event.”

Vladimir, I already downloaded the demo version of Spider Project and I am getting ready for the Grand Finale, the comparison of resource leveling sample using Spider Project and my software.

Spider Project Don’t let me down.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir,

For the size and type of jobs we do probably applying all these functionalities to all resources would be overkill but applying to a few like different production rates to different earthmoving equipment really stands out. After you get used to these functionalities it must be good to have them than missing them.

That you collect information on the volume of work done is something we used to call production reports to be included as part of your job costing in order to get unit costing instead of mere budgeting. To me tracing cost expenditure per cost account without tying these to a physical unit of production is a waste of time, and believe me this is not uncommon.

For years I was a Project Engineer and latter a Project Manager. As a Project manager if I asked the Project Engineer how much work was accomplished and he tells me 4,000 man hours I would ask him to be more specific. If by Monday he tells me 2,000 man-hours of Concretework, 500 man-hours of excavation, 1,000 man-hours of masonry installation and 500 man-hours of cement plaster by next Wednesday he will be at Mexico Street collecting his unemployment check. I need CY/cubic yards for Concretework, CM/cubic meters of excavation, SF of masonry installation and SY/square yards of cement plaster, I need to know my unit costs, please don’t give me EV acronyms. At the jobsite everyone knows the average unit costs of each, but BCWS, BCWP, ACWP and so on is non-sense, this is budgeting at its lowest level, just using weird parameter names.

That Spider Project has Earned Value Functionality is good, some Owners require it. I would not use it unless required, but better having it than not, just in case.

About Multi Resources (Crews), I love that, this is how construction work is managed on the field.

Can you pleas expand on Volume Lags and Strict Links, what are they for?

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir,

Exploring in sequential order your Comparative analysis of the functional features of PM software packages, the first item that attracts my attention is under Activity Types, Volume (physical), can you briefly explain what does this functionality means and provide us with some examples showing this cannot be modeled under software lacking this functionality.

I will continue through the table as to get a grasp on those other functionalities latter on and will follow up on the promised sample job showing how Power Project resource leveling is superior to the rest of the pack. This will be for desert, better be good, do not disappoint me.

Best regards.
Rafael

Hi Gary,

Don’t get me wrong. I supposed these are all Rafael’s and Vladimir’s ideas with their "resource constraining" and "activities with no links" using their "systematic algorithm"; "brute force" or whatever (i forgot some).

Now, you are saying that it’s not possible?

cheers!

Vladimir,

I posted in Rapidshare the table you send me so others can look at it and make their own questions. I am aware it is not comprehensive but it is a start.

Spider Project Functional Features Table & other Software

For me only one sample job will do it, as we say here, “for a sample only one button is enough”. I will take a look at it and compare with Spider Project Demo.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir,

That MS Project does not look for an optimum solution is no surprise but that P3 neither is new to me, hard to believe.

UNBELIEVABLE ! ! ! !

Guess the only way to know is to compare side to side the same job under P3 and Spider Project.

Don’t take me wrong, it is just hard to believe. I would like to see some indepentent study on that.

Best regards,
Rafael

Anoon

All algorithms are systematic, this pompous name only means a set of instructions that systematically look for a solution, is the way a computer looks for a solution to any given problem, and once these general procedures are coded into a computer language are usually known as subroutines.

With regard to resource leveling, all software has its own algorithm, each looking for an optimal solution. Hopefully all will get close to the optimal solution, there might be different outcomes but close.

One way to get the optimal solution would be by generating all possible outcomes that satisfy the constraints and selecting the optimal one(s). Yes there might be more than one optimal solution. But these method, known as “Brute Force” would require an enormous amount of computer time, which is where these procedures excel.

The issue of resource leveling can be handled by almost any CPM software of today, what none can do, with the exception of Spider Project, is handling the resource leveling issue while at the same time considering other set of constraints, real constraints. This was the future, now it is the present, follow the leader.

If you are further interested into these types of issues you can look into the title of Operations Research, the branch of mathematics that deals with this kind of problems. After 30 years out of school to me this have become too complicated, just give me the tools.

About resource constraining without linking activities just imagine the following set of tasks you can work on only one at a time.

Do the laundry, Go to the Pharmacy, Go to Bank and make cash deposit.

All are completely independent activities so there would be no logic link, you most probably would solve the issue based on priorities, or maybe "float" the available time before they become critical.

Best regards,
Rafael

Vladimir,

Again, it sounds like from the commercial side (Sorry).

I presumed you are saying that this will apply to a given or defined overall duration (say, contract duration)?

And I would say limited contract duration, with limited space (literal space) or defined interim milestones or whatever that has limits (and I guess everything has limits!).

cheers!

All,

Please allow me to go back to Vladimir’s statement:

"We start with the construction schedule as if materials are available at any moment. As the result we get material requirements at any moment."

If you’ll just admit (honestly), I believe everybody is doing the same thing, regardless of the software used.

Construction scheduling is not difficult if you got the details with you, which means complete engineering details. Consummables are easy to define and these shall fit with your activities.

Delivery schedule or Material availability is another story.

Linking the two (Construction Schedule and Material availability), is where the problems will come-up!

This is my question, is Spider capable of linking the schedules (as mentioned above) without using constraints (or without nailing certain activity or activities)??

This is what Vladimir didn’t answer!

cheers!

Rafael,

I thought you are going to beat Vladimir?

Just assume that I’m working on another planet where planning can be done in various ways.

Though I believe (still) that there is only one way of doing it. And of course with the intention of making as much profit as you can (this is what I meant by commercial).

"Material Resources" for me, is always consummable (you don’t need to emphasize that!), but this has always limits as well (again, this is engineering), how can you make profits if your consummables has no limits?

sorry for interruption (you know I’m working!) I’ll be back later.

cheers!

"So construction schedule defines requirements to supply. Delivery schedule defines restrictions to construction."

Vlad, I like that statement. If you don’t mind to answer, I may ask if in your personal style of scheduling:

1. What do you do first, Construction Schedule or Delivery Schedule? (considering that all elements that you might need are known).

2. If delivery schedule is not known, how are you going to simulate construction schedule? Do you use constraints?

3. Which comes first, "chicken or egg"?

cheers!

in our project, we level material according to usage

MATERIAL level maybe applicable for the project having small storage area?

I’m still wondering why you gentlemen (and ladies?) are trying to argue about the importance of Start-to-Finish (SF) relationship.

Let me try for example:

1. an equipment with a concrete foundation;

2. Considering that you can construct the concrete foundation without any hassles but only the anchorage that you will need to tie with the reinforcements of your concrete foundation (so that you cannot place concrete without it).

3. You still have no idea when this equipment (including anchorage and appurtenances) will be delivered to you.

4. How are you going to schedule this? What relationship will best define the delivery of anchorage and the installation of the rebars?

cheers!

Hi Vladimir.

Is it only resource linking?

What about work space?

All of this can be done with a simple bottom up basic task method.

I am beginnining to think that we are both talking about the same procedure but approaching from diverse directions.

In any case I am rapidly losing interest in the whole topic.

Don’t worry I won’t lock the topic.

Best regards

Mike Testro.