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Want to become a planner

51 replies [Last post]
Mon, 2005-09-12 06:09
Amrit Sagoo
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Dear All

I come from a scheduling background and want to break into Planning ??
I am aware that some companies offer on the job training for Primavera.
Is it advisable for me to do a 3 day course to learn Primavera ??
Pls advise
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Replies

Fri, 2006-11-03 04:55
#1
James Griffiths
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Alex,

I think I’ll BECOME THE FAN. Then, when people start chucking it, I’ll just blow it straight back at them. My problem is that I’m actually far too soft for my own good. I don’t like blaming people because is causes friction and resentment, so I’ll have to think of ways of blaming them without blaming them...if you know what I mean.

James.

PS. Are you saying that you don’t know what your deadlines are?
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Thu, 2006-11-02 19:06
#2
Alex Wong
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James

Thats why you dont want to position yourself in front of the FAN.

^^

Well said about the REAL deadline, but our problem is not able to find out our deadline. If we do, things will be so much different.

Cheers
Alex

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Wed, 2006-11-01 03:18
#3
James Griffiths
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Hi Guys,

We’re back on this "wedding" topic again and "deadlines".

In its extreme, the only REAL deadline is one where, if you don’t hit it, you die!!! All other consequences are just money and convenience that are proportional to the duration of the delay.

I like to hit my deadlines and feel very proud to be able to achieve them. I take it as a personal challenge to use all my skills, energy and motivation. However, if a deadline is unrealistic, with no specific rewards to work like a bat-out-of-Hell, then I’m not going to take too much notice. I will do my very best at all times but I’ll try not to get too stressed about missing them. The whole idea, post project completion, is to learn why things went the way they did and to correct those errors on your next project. The problem is, however, that too few companies take notice of any lessons learned. They make the same mistakes over-and-over again. It is akin to them saying that we shall drive 100Km in one hour, but we’ll use a car that can only do 50Km/hour. You can tub-thump, bible-bash, scream-and-shout, motivate and whip as much as you want....but it ain’t gonna be done. When the poo hits the fan, and everyone is beating each-other senseless, I wonder whether it is all just a game. Please enlighten me!!

James.
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Wed, 2006-11-01 00:03
#4
Jerry Alivio
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Agree, thats the name of the game "RISKS".

Cheers,
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Tue, 2006-10-31 22:51
#5
Alex Wong
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Jerry

Everything in life is possible, but what I mean is wedding deadline is a lot firmer than a project deadline and that why the stress in the Time factor is a lot more important than cost and quality.

Thats why a lot of planning course use wedding as an good example for planner to learn.

What you said in the end is what I call RISK where any project have.

Alex
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Tue, 2006-10-31 22:34
#6
Jerry Alivio
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Hello Alex,

I guess you’re right in some part, but believe me everything that involved planning and schedule there is always a potential of being delayed including the Wedding Planning.

Correct me if i’m wrong...Constraints are always around the corner...Wedding...Traffic ;>

See yah..
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Tue, 2006-10-31 19:30
#7
Alex Wong
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Hi Gents,

It more than just technical...
I think it a lot more planning involved in wedding planner than a project planner. Why...
A wedding have a dead line that cannot move... Agreed gentlement??
Most of the time a project can have a EOT due to various reason. disruption, weather.... but wedding ... you dont have that.

Trust me planning a airport project is a lot earier than planning my wedding...

My points is everything is a project. To effectively plan a project require a list of skill. Different project require different set of skills some overlap some dont. If you able to plan a wedding, then you have part of the skill set to plan a major project, however, you need to learn and experiences the rest of that skill to become a successful "Infrastructure Project Planner".
Same apply if you can plan a major project you may still find planning a wedding is very hard and stressful because part of the skill set you dont have to plan a wedding.

Good luck in search of that missing skills

^^
Alex
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Mon, 2006-10-30 02:05
#8
Chris Oggham
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Hi Will,

It wasn’t my intention to imply that the planner should take on the role of project manager although, as you say, it can be a fine line. The only point I was making is that planning is a mindset, and the only difference between planning a wedding and a major project is scale and technical content. Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear.

Chris Oggham
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Sun, 2006-10-29 01:44
#9
Jerry Alivio
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Hello..Will,

I drink to that..
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Fri, 2006-10-27 05:08
#10
Will Russell
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Chris, it sounds as though you’re expecting the planner to take on the role of the project manager? I would have thought the project planner should know when and where all the work and resources are required to be done and done too and relay that information to the PM to a certain extent anyway, it’s a fine line isn’t it?
WIll
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Fri, 2006-10-20 11:35
#11
Shahzad Munawar
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Best of Luck to become Planner but be practical as some of the member gave their good suggestions on that issue
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Wed, 2006-10-18 02:52
#12
Bahari Sulaiman
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Good day Chris,
I’m sorry, I have’nt finish my point yet and I’ve to catch a flight. As a continuation, what I would like to stress is that it’s not a tool or technique, though we need them but it is secondary. Most importantly is that you need to know what you’re going to do and how to do it, be it a wedding or major project. Mind you the wedding procedure in UK may not similar to the one in Asia, although the ultimate is the same. In other words, for one to plan he/she needs to know the scope of works(though it changing) and the work processes required to get the job done. Of cource, one need to know also the techniques, such as CPM and the ability to handle the tools(P3, MS project, etc). But the key point is to understand the work processes, be it IT software development, or petrochemical plant, etc. Well, I guess I can’t be writing a whole book in this forum, nevertheless, I hope you get my point.
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Wed, 2006-10-18 02:02
#13
Chris Oggham
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Hi Bahari,

If you’re saying that someone capable of planning a wedding might not be capable of planning a major project, I agree with you. I’m not sure I agree with you when you say that you can be a wedding planner but not a project planner. Using your examples, a major project, whether it is a bridge, shopping mall, ship or whatever, a product launch, political campaign or a wedding can all be treated as projects.

There is a difference in scale, certainly, between planning a wedding and a major project. The major project may well require an in-depth technical knowledge as well as planning knowledge, as well as formal documentation etc. But the ultimate aim of both is the same, namely to have the right resources and people, in the right place, at the right time; and to complete all the work to time, cost and quality.

So while the scale can be vastly different, the principles used in planning a major project or a wedding are the same.

Chris Oggham

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Tue, 2006-10-17 18:07
#14
Bahari Sulaiman
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It’s an interesting subject. Thanks to the contribution from dear felow planners. However, one must understand that, the term planner is applicabble to almost any instances, be it a major project, product launch, political campaign, wedding, etc. One can be a successful wedding planner, but not a project planner. To make it short, thus (based on my research paper), in order to be a good planner, one must understand the fundamental principal of the work proceses. (Of course it won’t stop here, there lot more that I can write, but I’m catching up my tight scheduler, sorry)
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Thu, 2006-08-24 21:36
#15
Jerry Alivio
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Hello! Jawad,

Nice meeting you.

Thanks.
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Thu, 2006-08-24 20:38
#16
Jawad Al-Nimri
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I DO AGREEEEEEEEE
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Thu, 2006-08-24 18:56
#17
Jerry Alivio
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Hi! Fellow’s’

We are here in this web-site to share, to learn and to make friends around the world. My suggestion is, can we avoid those sensitive issues are not really meaningful.

If a certain member made mistake by typing error and we urges him to do what he consider as nothing, please leave it there, don’t make it an issue.

Hope we consider this for the sake of unity. Of course we all knew what’s next.

Cheers!
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Thu, 2006-08-24 06:15
#18
Jawad Al-Nimri
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My advice is:

1- Understand the theory of planning & scheduling (CPM)
2- Read through the manual day-day
3- Try to make more than the required by asking yourself questions and trying to makeit.

once you’ve done something successfully you will learn it the lifetime.

regards,
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Mon, 2006-07-31 03:55
#19
Gwen Blair
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Nigel, Chris, Clive
I totally agree with you. For me this forum is also a sanity check and its good to know I am not the only one struggling with a particular situation be it keystrokes, contractual issues etc.
If you have joined up and put yourself on the line you should be willing to share generic information, thoughts and opinions. Direct personal, contractual and sensitive issues is not what is being asked for.
Not must get back to my labours!
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Mon, 2006-07-31 03:09
#20
Nigel Winkley
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Dear All

I joined this forum for two reasons, firstly to ask for advice on various topics and secondly to share the experience/knowledge I have had with others.

If someone needs assistance, then I will do what I can to help them. Some of my advice will be based around what MY experience/knowledge is, not necessarily the "industry standard".

Some people will agree with it, some won’t. But I will give it free, gratis and for nothing expecting nothing in return - thanks would be nice is all.

To keep things secret? Well, I will not (cannot) give you my latest programme as it is a contractual matter and confidential. Other than that, ask away.

Fundamentals of planning? Read the contract, look at the drawings, talk to people, learn, remember, use.

Remember guys and gals, we were all juniors/learners/improvers at one stage - share freely.

Nige
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Mon, 2006-07-31 01:52
#21
Chris Oggham
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Hi Clive,

I completely agree with you. The whole purpose of this forum is for planners to share their knowledge and experience to help each other. I find it rather strange that Charlie wants to keep what he thinks are the fundamentals of planning a secret.

It’s most unusual for Charlie to be unforthcoming, he’s normally prepared to share what he thinks on just about anything. If he’s not prepared to share something as basic as that, I confess I’m puzzled as to why he joined Planning Planet in the first place.

Regards

Chris Oggham
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Sun, 2006-07-30 19:46
#22
Clive Randall
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Charlie
Surely the whole purpose of this forum is for more experienced members to share their knowledge and experience to assist the more Junior planners.
If we can help the beginners by sharing our experience they will not make the mistakes we did and planning/planners will improve.
To keep what we know secret appears to defeat the object of the forum.
As to privacy I accept your feelings on this but I am sure that nobody expects you to tell us about your private life just your public life in relation to planning. Of course there is not an anticipation that this will involve the release of sensitive corporate information.
I would prropose a simple example to you
Andrew Flowerday has considerable experience of claims
He has provided a valued contribution on impact analysis.
You have benefitted from your own admission from his input
What if he had considered his thoughts as private and secret???
Charlie to share what we consider to be the fundamentals of planning surely is at the core of what we are trying to do, you cannot say practice the fundamentals if you are not prepared to say what the fundamentals in your opinion are.
Clive
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Sat, 2006-07-29 22:34
#23
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello

I’m not applying for a job. I’m not in a job interview.

I believe it is a waste of time answering your question.

The be efficient please understand the word ...


SECRET AND RESPECT OF PRIVACY


Cheers,


charlie


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Fri, 2006-07-28 20:03
#24
Clive Randall
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Charlie
Reading a book will not answer my question as to what Charleston Orbe thinks are the fundamentals of planning
It may however tell me what somebody else thinks are the fundamentals of planning.
So I will restate my question Charlie WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE FUNDAMENTALS OF PLANNING"
Clive
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Fri, 2006-07-28 09:34
#25
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Clive,

Please read books. In this way you will find answer to your question, and avoid disagreement with me.

You can recall your high school book. If your teacher forget to teach it to your class or you were absent for whatever reasong, then check the books use in your college days. If you still cannot find the answere to your question, then, read PMBook.

If and if you still cant find answer to your question,

??????????

I will tell you what to do next.

Cheers

Charlie
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Mon, 2006-07-24 00:55
#26
Clive Randall
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Charlie
What do you consider to be the fundamentals of Planning???
Clive
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Sun, 2006-07-23 09:43
#27
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Amrit,

If you wanted it so much and become simply the best, take engineering course, love the subject contruction management, dont drink too much alcohol while studying, remember your teacher when he will teach you the fundamentals of planning (that portion only).

Believe, a lot of wanabees here in our plannet PP, forgot the fundamentals of planning. Stick to the fundamentals of planning before venturing into sophisticated and advance course in planning.

cheers,

charlie
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Mon, 2006-07-17 03:04
#28
Jerry Alivio
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Hi! Andrey,

It’s true, currently I am experiencing this type of situation whereby the Based Line Schedule...The Integrated Level 3 Schedule had been approved by the client’s top Management and of Course My own top Mnagement as well.

However those in the front line (The Construction Group) opposed to be MI "Mission Impossible" well in the first place I agree with them but, if you look at the time frame, the duration for the project then I can guarantee that you will be scared. in a sense that if they don’t follow my planned schedule then... the MI will be very costly. Simply because our company will pay the LAD of few million per month of delay.

Now the only way to win the War is to accept my MI schedule, the only schedule that can be sure to deliver the project on time.

Best Regards,

Jerry Alivio
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Tue, 2006-04-04 03:43
#29
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Again Andrey,
So its your team to analyse / define the interfacing area as a team work. Anyhow gave them 3 best method of your schedule by mail for your own sake(bullet proof)and c.c to managers. This is your bullet if they fail. Try it then you will know the impact, off course nobody want the project fail, but to know the project is matured enough to share things with others.

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Tue, 2006-04-04 02:36
#30
Andrey Ivanov
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Thank a lot, all of you for your understanding.
Want to make it more exact :)

Raja Izat Raja Ibrahim :

The problem is, that they didn’t want to structure their methods. Engeneers say that they have all in their head and that is why they didn’t need any planning instruments. And plans at all. :)
Of course, we discuss and dispute with them everytime. And I belive that finally I’ll convince them.
I’ll try to use your advices. And... I’m looking for bullet proof :)

Gary Whitehead:
Thanks, good advice about "2 people who are at least willing to give it a try". I’ll use it. Only... i think that good planned part of a project didn’t show all advantages of planning.

Se de leon:
Following your advice I making a presentation of the current planning system (small slide) and my suggestions (Big changes). If this will not work, I’ll try to make it step by step by little portions.

P.S. Thanks angain to all of you, and could you say what is your projects you currently participate in? And in what quality? Just my questions to be more precise.



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Fri, 2006-03-31 02:32
#31
Se de Leon
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Difficult situation.

I once encountered the same situation. I was new in the company but the system being implemented was just recently approved by management because the company wants to pass a certain certification.

Difficulty 1 - You can not just change it because if you do, you will end up receiving a lot of Non compliance reports from QA.

Difficulty 2 - Higher management will tell you that you are just reinventing the wheel. what they don’t know is that the wheel they invented is not working. It’s not easy to point this out especially if the person you are contradicting with is on top of the food chain.

What I did...

I followed the existing system but made sure that I recorded each weakness of the system and I prepared a proposal on how to correct it. Then in the QA system, there is a step on how to make a proposal for system change. Follow the steps and make your proposal. Instead of proposing to change the whole system, try to propose a modification on the system. But make sure that yours is better than the existing one and be ready for any scrutiny by anybody.

Just my thoughts,

Cheers,

Se
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Fri, 2006-03-31 01:26
#32
Gary Whitehead
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Very common issue. No easy solutions that I’ve come across, but some things that can help turn attitudes around are:

-Continued focus on applying good planning practises from top-level management -Lobby for this if it’s not there. If all they are doing is paying lip service, you’re figthing an uphill battle.
-Find 1 or 2 people who are at least willing to give it a try. Put every effort into ensuring they see the benefits of a well-planned project, and then use them as planning advocates.
-If your firm has a post-project review or lessons learnt system, attend as many as possible and be sure to point out how better planning could have eliminated / mitigated many/all of the issues identified.
-When the project team is not willing to put the required effort into planning, make sure this decision is documented in minutes, and try to get it on the risk register.
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Fri, 2006-03-31 01:05
#33
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
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Hi Mr Andrey,
I’m sorry to hear that, dont be sad, Its happen all the time. My suggestion try to be calm, actually there is so many methods to execute, the project. The best way U should do, ask them "what is their method"? then u study the method in terms of the
1. safety risk
2. time analysis
3. saving cost
If they can make sure the construction will execute smoothly with this better follow. If not gave them the bullet to kill themself. Second option U have to wear bullet proof play dead....ha ha.
cheers.
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Thu, 2006-03-30 23:32
#34
Andrey Ivanov
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Hi, All

Tell me please, does anybody face with a situation when planning in the company was approved by top - management team, but wasn’t accepted by executors.

Please share your expirience in such situations?

Best regards.
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Wed, 2006-03-29 23:35
#35
Channi Matharu
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To all those offering advice on becoming a planner, you seem to be forgetting the basics - GET PLENTY OF SITE EXPERIENCE FIRST.

People who are adept at using software such as P3 without the basic knowledge in construction are still useful as schedulers (number crunchers) but often they are unable to judge whether the output is correct or not.

It is just like the old days when we had cadd operators who produced neat and beautiful RC detail drawings but were unable to check if the detail was correct or not.

Channi
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Sat, 2005-10-15 05:58
#36
Oscar Wilde
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Charlie

Read what Bill said

If you can do it with a pencil then you may be a junior planner

using P3 as a benchmark of competance is like saying holding a driving licence makes you an F1 driver

Vroom Vroom

Oscar
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Sat, 2005-09-17 07:17
#37
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Amrit,

If your computer is loaded with Primavera P3 ver 3.1, then all you have to do is go to tutorial, always look at the sample projects and always go to help everytime you got stuck in planning using P3.

What im trying to say is that if you have a project then start the planning process. In using P3 all you need to do is to look back at tutorial, sample projects and help topics.

I hope this will help you since this is always the case for P3.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Sat, 2005-09-17 05:47
#38
Gary France
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If you want to find out about books relating to planning and scheduling, visit the PEO website by clicking on this link Planning Engineers Organisation - Books


There are about 30 books listed there that might be of interest.

Gary France
Chairman
Planning Engineers Organisation
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Thu, 2005-09-15 08:35
#39
Amrit Sagoo
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Thanks a lot for the feedback guys
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Wed, 2005-09-14 01:34
#40
Se de Leon
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You want to be a good planner, hang around with good people.
Work with seasoned project managers, contracts people, construction supervisors etc. etc. etc. Learn from experienced people. Primavera expertise is just an icing on the cake.

Cheers,
Se
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Tue, 2005-09-13 23:40
#41
Bill Guthrie
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And parting shot,

you can become a expert on p3 but THAT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A QUALIFIED PLANNER,only a computer poerator.

WHEN YOU ARE TO THE POINT THAT YOU CAN PLAN A PROJECT WITH ONLY PENCIL AND PAPER, NO COMPUTER AND KNOW FOR SURE WHAT YOU ARE DOING, at that point you could be qualified as a jr planner.

cheers bill
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Tue, 2005-09-13 21:05
#42
Sukumaran Subaram...
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Amrit,

On top of the recommended books, don’t forget to get the P3 software. You need to do a light exercise to familiarize the software, while reading on how to operate the P3; i.e Read the book and Operate P3 together.

Regards.
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Tue, 2005-09-13 02:50
#43
Katalin Hovanyi
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Haliho,
Try this site http://www.directtextbook.com/reviews/0957778317
to get Paul E. Harris books about Primavera
Regards
Katalin
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Tue, 2005-09-13 02:24
#44
Steven Oliver
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Paul Harris has published an excellent book on the application of P3 to Construction. I would highly recommend this as light bedtime reading.

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Mon, 2005-09-12 15:44
#45
Shahzad Munawar
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Sagoo

Can books on Primavera be bought over the shelf?

Of course, No doubt

but in addition to that you should also taken into consideration of protocols on Planning Methods and development being made on day by day basis in this field via various web sites.

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Mon, 2005-09-12 13:02
#46
Amrit Sagoo
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Point taken guys, but you all started somewhere.
I need a push in the right direction, so I can develop a career in planning !!

Raja Izat, what I meant was "I come from a scheduling background and want to break into Planning" needed advise on that.

Charleston-Joseph, thanks for the encouragement
Can books on Primavera be bought over the shelf?? Or even Amazon.com ?? If so, which ones are the best ??

Cheers guys
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Mon, 2005-09-12 12:12
#47
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
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Hi Amreet,

I want to share a secret.

I learn Primavera P3 by telling myself i can learn it.

At that time it was called Primavera Finest Hour for DOS.

I spent long hours reading Primavera Manual, PERT/CM for construction.

The rest are history.

I hope this will help.

Cheers,

Charlie
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Mon, 2005-09-12 08:50
#48
Bill Guthrie
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 262
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Ha Ha Well Said Steven:

Me Too. Sometimes I am suprised by something I find that in 15 years have not seen. Thats why I love P3, its always a learn with it.

Cheers Bill
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Mon, 2005-09-12 08:01
#49
Steven Oliver
User offline. Last seen 11 years 50 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Nov 2002
Posts: 313
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After 10yrs+ using P3, I still found new features.
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Mon, 2005-09-12 07:13
#50
Bill Guthrie
User offline. Last seen 8 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 262
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
You can take a primavera coruse about a week long and learn the basics of running a program.

But if you read the last 6 months postings you will find that it takes several years of hard work to become a good planning and scheduling staff. And to master primavra it takes about a year.

cheers bill
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Mon, 2005-09-12 06:35
#51
Raja Izat Raja Ib...
User offline. Last seen 13 years 23 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 2 Jun 2005
Posts: 299
Groups: GPC Malaysia, Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Dear Amrit,
First question - i dont understand.
2.if u lucky, not evry company have this benefit.
3.for 3 days course - not much u can plan.
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