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Back to basic Learning asessing EOT award

9 replies [Last post]
Thu, 2006-10-26 15:31
Skan Bu
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Hi all,

Wants to learn how to assess EOT & since I am very green, will appreciate a step by step logical analytical assessment guidance.

Assume I am working for a Main Contractor and award Sub Contract to a party "A" on a project. The main contract is based on FIDIC Contract and the Sub Contract is the same. The Sub Contract work involved a construction of a building(from Substructure to Finishing, External works and some small structures outside the boundary of the site (say concrete base). The Sub Contract documents are: The letter of Acceptance, Conditions of Sub Contract, Conditions of Main Contract, Specifications, Drawings and BoQ.

The Sun Contract Order include a schehule where:
Contract award: 6/01/06
Commencement on site: 13/01/06
Building: Completion - 30/07/06
External plinths No 1: Commence - 31/07/06 complete - 7/08/06
External plinth No 2: Commence - 10/08/06 complete - 17/08/06.
Finishing works: Building external works: Complete by 1/09/06.
As build drawings & O&M manuals: complete 1/11/06.

The work start on site actually start a week later than above and the Order Schedule was amended with both parties agreement.

During the course of the project, there had been 80 Site Instructions issued. One of the SI was for soft spot in the ground below the foundation which had to be excavated and mass concrete fill. The additional work involved an EOT claim of 28 days but was awarded 15days.

Say today is 15/09/06 and the work had yet to complete and the preliminiaries had run out (time related)if we do not award EOT, does that mean we will have to charge LD? Can the SubContractor cliam Preliminaries Overrun?

If now it is time to look whether the Sub Contractor is entitle to any other EOT, what & how best to assess possible EOT?
What are consider EOT and what are consider disruption?
What & how concurrent events play in this senario?
What will happen if there are no more EOT to award?
What will happen if the total EOT is still short of the date currently?

What to watch out in the sub contract on flaws which might allow the sub contractor to get away?

Hope you wise & experience gentlements/ladies will be able to guide me through this.
I want to learn the logic behind assessing EOT. I think it is a useful tools to understand because so many project will probably have such a situation too.




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Replies

Mon, 2006-10-30 14:29
#1
Skan Bu
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Joined: 29 May 2006
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Hi, Q1)I am no programmer as new to this game but from your question, I will try to answer. Initially, 1) I will determine whether there is a contract. 2) What type of contract? (D&B or remesure or what? 3) What are the contract docs & its priority? 4) Is the programme(which the critical path comes from) part of the docs? If not, well no need to consider at all. 5) If the contract is based on a schedule of dates for completion, then does the critical path play a part? It is to the main contractor to programme his work as long as complete on the set date or key dates. 6) If the programme is part of the docs, and you need to do not require an activities, yes you can "Zero" it but you will probably bring in other not critical activities into the critical path so the critical path could be longer or shorter. 7) What about lost of potential earning due to the omitted activities? 8) My guess is that the same will apply to intermediate key dates they are link. Q2) If LD is applicable on the intermediate key date, then you should claim for EoT for that key date or Eot should be able to be granted. Without the possibility of having EoT on the Int key date, time could be at large???? if the delay is caused by the client/designer????. Some form of defining the critical apth must be able since the work from qty etc can produce a most likely programme but probably subject to many combination or ways of achieving the end result. I hope I have gone about logically but if you think I have missed out, let us all know how you would approach this. Waiting in anticipation of your wise approach to the problems.
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Sun, 2006-10-29 10:14
#2
Puneet Gupta
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Hi Bu

Kool...i thought may be u didn’t like my words...anyways...

Just give me 2-3 days i will come back to your situation with much more deeper thought...right now little busy in submitting the EoT claim....deadline is 31 Oct...almost done just giving it a final touch.

If in the mean time ...let me request you to put your views on my assessment for EoT.

My questions are as follows.

Q1 What will you do if you have not executed (as not required) one of the activity which was defined on the critical path and affects the key date. Are you going to make its duration zero or you will shift its duration to its predecessor or successor activity as this duration can be assumed as float for its predecessor activity. remember this was on the critical path of the planned schedule. so by making its duration zero you are reducing your project completion time. ( is the same concept applicable on intermediate key dates)?

Q2 Say one of the intermediate key date has got some delay but its not affecting the project completion date. Can we define the critical path for the key date???? Can we get an EoT for Key date. (LDs are applicable on the key date)

Waiting for your ideas....

will come back to your querry soon...just wish me a good luck for my submission of EoT.

Your query is also a part of my EoT.

Thanks

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Sun, 2006-10-29 03:36
#3
Skan Bu
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Hi Rohit,

No harm, be cool/chill out!!
It is good to have representative from the "Other" side.
Give us yout constructive view as thought you would defending the contractor but obviously with the reasons you would explaining to the director.

We will see later on whether any Adjudicator can contribute and give their point whether your explanation can stand up.

As for me, I just want to learn how to access a situation like this for EOT.

Text book do not give the chain of thoughts and always not as practical - I find or maybe I am raeding the wrong type of books.

I just base this a any typical job that have such a situation.
I have put in a few typical situations to see whether how others would consider/assess. I thought a start date change can easily happen in a project, what effect will that have?
I typical additional excavation situation will also be useful. This one on my present project, we have this situation but i think it could happened to others too.

How would a sub sub contractor(ground work) claim against the main contractor if this happened?

Most project, if no Delay, everything is fine then no claims and no award of EOT.
Once a Delay occurred, they all jump in to protect their interest and "Notices" come in but What constitute a proper Notice? What constitute a claim? What should they include in the claim? hould the employer award EOT without a claim or notice? When should this be awarded?

This is what I would like to investigate and understand how the whole thing fix together?

I think I might have missed out what form of Contract and which version? Are there any differences if different Contracts are used?

I am green QS starting on this career so not experience with programming nor the wise PQS/QS/Project Management/Contract Manager world.
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Sat, 2006-10-28 03:27
#4
Skan Bu
User offline. Last seen 14 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
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Hi,

Before we get into the programming and monitor part, let look back and see whether my initial set up of the senario have any flaw?

Let try to clarify the questions and set the senario right.
I believe learning on the mistake made. if any!!!eheh is just as important process of learning.

This will probably wise me up on what important point to be included or worded into an enquiry or order.

Come help me to tidy this up

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Sat, 2006-10-28 00:46
#5
Puneet Gupta
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Hi Bu

Well its up to them how the contractor work on his schedule, you only need to check whether they are maintaining a ket date or not.

Second thing is check the daily reprts or records and create a baseline schedule with As-Built logics and As-Built duration.

Chcek where contractor is taking more time then the planned schedule.

and why?? was he slow??? was it a delay from employer???

Right now as i am working for a contractor i will say give them an EoT...whatever may be the case...hehhehehehe
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Fri, 2006-10-27 14:22
#6
Skan Bu
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Hi,
Thanks for the contribution.

Let deal Sharma suggestion 1st:ie As Built Duration & As Built Logic. ie if my understanding of the 2 are as follows.

The As Built Schedule & compare with the As Planned:
I think there could be a number of problem. My meaning of "schedule" is only a description of the dates as shown not a "Programme" in the Order. So there is a problem of comparing.
In any case, if say the sub contractor submit a programme during their tender, does that mean we have to except thier programme? The order only showed a list of dates so as long as the sub contractor adhere to those dates, how theyprogramme their works/trades is up to them. Does my point hold?
Yes, maybe if there was a As Planned Programme given to the Sub Contractor during tender, they stand a point.

Hi Kapir,
I think the above also applied to your point too.

Please feed back since this is only a hypothetical discussion and I hope others can contribute too to correct where we might have missed.

Thanks

The initial schSo does that mean if the Sub Contractor "Go Slow" for whatever reason, we end up giving them EOT?
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Fri, 2006-10-27 02:20
#7
kapil mathur
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Identify the new tasks in your schedule and show the follow on affect on the critical path.
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Fri, 2006-10-27 00:46
#8
Puneet Gupta
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Hi Bu

I am also not vey experianced like you in this field and struggling hard to know it!!! but with my little experiance i prefer As-Built Duration and As-Built logics to be incorporated as far as you can to estimate EoT.

You first prepare your As-Built schedule compare it with As Planned and see where and problems started.

This is just a basic idea i can give you.
This is my favourite approach but not a valid one.
But it can answer you number of questions which may be still hidden.
Good luck
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Sat, 2006-10-28 10:39
#9
Puneet Gupta
User offline. Last seen 10 years 47 weeks ago. Offline
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Hey Bu

I am sure my heheheh has not make you upset !!!!

anyways coming back to your question.

Is it a hypothetical situation?????

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