Guild of Project Controls: Compendium | Roles | Assessment | Certifications | Membership

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Should Planners be a Deputy Project Manager

27 replies [Last post]
Sun, 2009-02-01 06:34
Ron Baird
User offline. Last seen 3 years 50 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 1 Mar 2007
Posts: 28
Groups: None
Hi All,
I believe that good Project Planners should be titled Deputy Project Manager (Planning).
As most of the duties of the PM impinge upon the Planner, he would be in the right position to become more important to the Project.
Many fundamental errors are made in the early stages of the Project Process. No regard to Planning in the contract. Milestones agreed between Business Managers that are laughable.
The Project Management Plan that has important areas missing or incorrect.
Mission Statement and Communications Plan also require Planning input or even Authorship.
The Planner seems to be an after thought who is brought in when the PM suddenly realises he cannot blag the answers and needs help.
A lot of PMs do not impress me because they are fast tracked through the system and never spend time in the disciplines. Most Planners I have met come from Project Engineers or Production Engineers.
What are your thoughts,
Best regards,
Ron
Top

Replies

Wed, 2009-03-18 11:59
#1
Carmen Arape
User offline. Last seen 7 years 5 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 292
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Hi Charlie,

It seems that you are managing the crisis in the right way.

Client representative is the most bureaucratic, worthless and hypocrite role that I have ever seen. Sorry is my personal opinion.

Working in oil & gas might be less glamorous compared with the sectors mentioned by you.
Oil & gas has a special attraction to me.

Fully agree with you regarding the contractor side. They are the one doing the hard work if you compare them with client representative.

Cheers,
Top
Sat, 2009-03-14 05:31
#2
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hello Carmen,

I accepted a job offer way below my previous salary. It is more than 20% reduction. The workload is heavier because it is on the contractor side.

The brighter side is that I miss the hard work on the contractor side since basically I worked on the contractor side.

I found client representative work too light although the pay is higher on the client representative side.

With respect to www.worldwideworker.com, I’m already a member and from time to time, I did get notification regarding potential job offer. I do find working in oil and gas less glamorous compared to building works, civil and infrastructure works, or marine works.

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling
Top
Fri, 2009-03-06 23:38
#3
Carmen Arape
User offline. Last seen 7 years 5 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 292
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Charlie,

During this time of crisis, I am accepting 20% reduction of my salary in order to keep my JOB. I have around 40% of work load under normal circumstances. I mean without being busy in proposals (preparing the schedule) for the marketing department.

The company has decided to establish 4 working days a week during the next 6 months.

I like this approach of managing the crisis. I can afford to live with 80% of my normal income. The day OFF will be used for my personal development.

I will have more time for reading and being active in PP forum.

Please check this website:

www.worldwideworker.com

Cheers,
Top
Thu, 2009-03-05 03:58
#4
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 38 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Charlie,

I know we don’t see eye-to-eye, but I wouldn’t wish unemployment on anybody in the current financial situation. I can’t see you being happy freezing your nuts off in the Antarctic either. Below are a number of links for Project Planning and Project Manager jobs which are rather nearer to your current location than Antarctica.

Chris Oggham

Planning Jobs in UAE
Project Manager UAE
Planning Jobs Dubai
Project Planning Jobs
Project Manager Jobs
Top
Wed, 2009-03-04 20:24
#5
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hello Carmen,

At the present moment, the situation is not condusive for you to PM me. As you are aware, UAE is suffering from the present financial crisis. Gone are the good ole days of getting the best salary ever.

Now I fear for my position to become redundant. So I started to sent my cv’s hoping to get a better job and a better salary, which of course seems to be impossible. I could have done it earlier before the financial crisis but I made mistakes.

So, there is a good prospect but the project is somewhere in Antartica or some desolate place. I don’t think it is good for use to be together in such remote areas, far away from civilization..

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling
Top
Wed, 2009-03-04 06:30
#6
Jaime Lozo
User offline. Last seen 10 years 31 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Ditto - as Chris mentioned.
Top
Fri, 2009-02-27 06:11
#7
Carmen Arape
User offline. Last seen 7 years 5 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 292
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Mike,

Looking forward to Charlie’ response. Were you disappointed with the answer??. No , the answer was very Charlie style.

Charlie’s dream regarding the attributes and clothing is the dream of more than one of my male co-workers.

Back to the original idea: titles for the planner. Being a female planner with no attributes and clothing described by Charlie. I re-state the following;

A.no need of more titles than Planner .

B.- Influence on Project manager based on knowledge, leadership.

B.Apply for equal treatment, acceptance and responsibilities. (As part of Charlie’s philosophy)

Charlie, Would you like that I PM you ???

Cheers,


Top
Fri, 2009-02-27 04:18
#8
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 26 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Groups: Building Information Modelling, Content Moderators, GPCCAR Editors
Hi Chris

Just the thought of Charleston dressed like that has put me off my weetybangs.

All the same if there was such a planner in the office it would assist greatly in the erection process.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Top
Fri, 2009-02-27 03:23
#9
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 38 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Dieter,

His eyes would be bugged out, thoughts would be below the belt and he’d be tripping over his own tongue.

Charlie,

Where you described your ideal female planner, Shapely legs, slender and long legs, nice boobs, vital statistics: 36-23-24. Always wear micro mini skirts. Wear see thru shirts, braless. alway wear G-string or tanga. Athletics sport minded and competitive like me.

I hope that the underlined text in your statement refers only to the Athletics sport minded and competitive and didn’t extend to the choice of clothing.

Chris Oggham
Top
Fri, 2009-02-27 02:06
#10
Dieter Wambach
User offline. Last seen 7 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1350
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas, TILOS
Charly
But then you’ll fail will your project...
Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 20:17
#11
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
"leadership, ambitious and knowledge in a female pretty planner." ... why the planner has so strong influence on the Project manager?

I really wanted to work with that kind of planner.

Can I add:

Shapely legs, slender and long legs, nice boobs, vital statistics: 36-23-24. Always wear micro mini skirts. Wear see thru shirts, braless. alway wear G-string or tanga. Athletics sport minded and competitive like me.

Long silky hairm, smooth skin, fair complexion. High IQ maybe 120 and above,

If you can find that planner, please tell her to PM me. I will hire her, salary sky is the limit.

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling
Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 20:06
#12
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Hello Carmen,

Long time no hear from you. And what a provocative statement

"leadership, ambitious and knowledge in a female pretty planner." ... why the planner has so strong influence on the Project manager?

It depends on the country and culture. I don’t have to mentione the country and nationalities. Just figure it out.

A. Some don’t trust a particular gender achieving high positioni by using their looks. They know from their history that such particular gender will cause wars and famime, a lot of difficulties.

B. Some just treat the opposite sex as a reliever of anxiety. to propagate humanity or so that human species will not become instinct.

My line of thought and philosophy is equal treatment, acceptance of individual roles in project as a team member without prejudice subject to transparent rules, policies with regards to promotions and level of responsibilities.

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling






Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 09:30
#13
Carmen Arape
User offline. Last seen 7 years 5 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 292
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Dear All,

We agree that the knowledge + leadership + ambitious in a planner can lead him/her to the top spot without gender discrimination .

Mike,

Looking forward to Charlie response to my last sentence


Cheers,
Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 09:20
#14
Dieter Wambach
User offline. Last seen 7 years 21 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 1350
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas, TILOS
Dear Carmen

We are right hand of Project Manager not PM, no doubt. For my opinion, experience or knowledge in Project Management is helpful.

Sorry for contradiction. I know two female planners: strong personality, ambitious, knowledgeable, pretty. PMs like very much to co-operate with them. Problem for my opinion would be: pretty but not knowledgeable and not a strong personality.

If a planner has the ability to become a PM, why not promote her/him?

A really nice discussion.

Regards
Dieter

Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 09:03
#15
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 38 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Carmen,

With Regard to your comment Planner with personality + ambitious . Such planner would not fit in the planner position for long time. I completely agree.

when a lot of planners start off, they’re called trainee planners, after a period of time, they become junior planners. After gaining more experience and if they have the ambition and ability, they become senior planners, then lead planners. If the ambition and the ability are still there, the next step is planning manager, keep working at it and eventually they get to the dizzy heights of Planning and Projects Director with a seat on the Board. Eventually the only thing that’s left is the top spot so why not if the planner has the ambition and ability?

Chris Oggham
Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 08:51
#16
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 26 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Groups: Building Information Modelling, Content Moderators, GPCCAR Editors
Hi Carmen

I am really looking forward to Charelstons response to your last sentence.

Best regards

Mike Testro
Top
Thu, 2009-02-26 08:42
#17
Carmen Arape
User offline. Last seen 7 years 5 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 292
Groups: Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
Dear All,

With such important comments coming from well known PP members, I will like to add the following;

Anoon,

Planners as shadow of Project Manager indicates to me that the Planners is someone without personality. The planner is a marionette in the Project Manager’s hands.

Charlie,

Planner personality must have leadership . Fully agree but dangerous. The Project Manager might feel that the planner wants his position.


Chris,

Planner with personality + ambitious . Such planner would not fit in the planner position for long time.

Personal opinion,

I would rather be low profile. Right hand of Project Manager is OK for ME.
If I put the elements mentioned above : leadership, ambitious and knowledge in a female pretty planner . I can imagine the comments from my male co-workers regarding why the planner has so strong influence on the Project manager.

Cheers,
Top
Tue, 2009-02-24 10:10
#18
Nestor Principe
User offline. Last seen 13 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 151
Groups: Civil Engineering
Hi Chris,

I agree that the planner is the most knowledgeable person next to the PM, nobody can challenge that. Lead planner will always have the same role regardless of the title, you can call him planning manager, planning director, deputy project manager (planning), etc. his role in the organization will still be the same. While he is prepared to take on aspects of the PM’s role, in the long term, he would require someone who will take his role as a planner. There is one case the project director dictates the planning of the works, who was a planner before, he still needs planning manager to implement his ideas.

I fully agree, the planners are qualified to be promoted to the top of the organization.

Cheers..
Top
Tue, 2009-02-24 03:25
#19
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 38 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Nestor,

While I agree with you that it’s part of the planners work to collect aces for the project manager, who has to play those aces if the PM goes missing? In a lot of cases, until a new PM is appointed, it’s the Lead Planner.

So if we go back to Ron’s original post where he suggests that planners should be titled Deputy Project Manager (Planning), why not? If, in addition, the planner is prepared to take on aspects of the Project Manager’s role as well, wouldn’t just Deputy Project Manager be better?

As for Charlie’s assertion to aspire for the top spot, if the planner in question has the abilities and the ambition, again, why not?

Chris Oggham
Top
Tue, 2009-02-24 01:02
#20
Nestor Principe
User offline. Last seen 13 years 14 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 151
Groups: Civil Engineering
The most significant role of the planner, in my opinion, is to collect as many aces to ensure the PM will have enough to play on the table. Not to make decision.

Cheers..
Top
Mon, 2009-02-23 18:45
#21
Charleston-Joseph...
User offline. Last seen 3 years 7 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1347
Groups: None
Why go for Deputy Project Managers.

Aspire for the top spot, Project Director.

Only planners know the mistakes in project management administration. And only planners can make the necessary course of actions.

Of course only in plan, plans, plannsss, etc.

Implementation????? hmmmm

Depends on the planners personality regarding leadership

for Leadership is a must

Cheers,
Happy Planning and Scheduling
Top
Sat, 2009-02-07 15:00
#22
Samer Zawaydeh
User offline. Last seen 5 years 29 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 3 Aug 2008
Posts: 1664
Groups: Civil Engineering, Regional Representatives
Hi,

It depends on the size of the project. You can be called Project Manager in addition to planner if you are doing the Project Manager Job.

So it really depends on what activities you are doing in the project.

If you are also controlling the execution, control and monitor stage and the close out, then you are coming closer to the Project Management title.

Best Regards,

Samer
Top
Thu, 2009-02-05 09:50
#23
Lloyd Young
User offline. Last seen 8 years 51 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 26
Groups: None
I agree a name or title has no real meaning, plus lets face it PM’s are in the firing line when the project goes up the swan, which of course is not the planners thought!
Top
Tue, 2009-02-03 05:34
#24
Chris Oggham
User offline. Last seen 9 years 38 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 605
Groups: None
Hi Guys,

While it’s true that a name is only a name, Ron does have a point. If for some reason the Project Manager goes missing (head-hunted, dead drunk or just dead) who is expected to know what’s happening with the project? Although I’ve only seen it happen a couple of time it’s always come down to the Lead or Senior Planner being expected to provide the answers.

Maybe calling the Lead Planner Deputy Project Manager (with or without the word Planning included in the title) could help concentrate people’s minds as to just what planners do.

Chris Oggham
Top
Mon, 2009-02-02 07:49
#25
Anoon Iimos
User offline. Last seen 2 years 35 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1422
Groups: Pinoy Planning Planet Community
Mike,

Me too, I never care about the name or title, for as long as there is a job.

cheers!
Top
Sun, 2009-02-01 12:05
#26
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 26 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Groups: Building Information Modelling, Content Moderators, GPCCAR Editors
Hi Anoon

Keep up the good work.

Deputy Project Manager or Senior Planning Manager?

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

I don’t care what they call me as long as its not late for dinner.

Best regards

Mike Testro

Top
Sun, 2009-02-01 08:04
#27
Anoon Iimos
User offline. Last seen 2 years 35 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1422
Groups: Pinoy Planning Planet Community
I agree, Planners are supposed to be the shadow of the Project Manager, but most PMs I guess never realized that.

One software I remember (most popular with Planners) is specified to be designed for Project Managers (but they don’t even know where F9 is). So how can you expect Project Managers to deliberately emphasize the use of FS (finish-to-start) relationships? This one is intended for Mike.

cheers!
Top