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Shifts starting on the half hour?

10 replies [Last post]
Wed, 2005-02-02 20:33
Bernard Ertl
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Just curious if anyone has ever experienced a project where a working shift began (and ended) on the half hour or other part of the hour.

For example, 5:30pm/am to 3:30am/pm for a 10 hour shift.

Bernard Ertl
ATC Professional Shutdown / Turnaround Management System
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Sat, 2005-02-12 08:44
#1
Jonathan Kirby
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Hi All
Not only in Open Plan , Spider , but also in PowerProjects which allways operates in hours, minutes and seconds. you can set up unlimited shift pattens and associate the same shift patten to any variety of calendar. All resources can be assigned to shift pattens or calendars independantly to an activity calendar or shift patten. So i find i can can model resouces and shift pattens in a genuine and realistic way. you can also have a micro scheduled set of activities embedded in a overview task all within the one plan. in P3 you have to create a separate project to plan in a different time unit. Slightly off bernards track but thought it was worth mentioning ...
Regards
JK
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Tue, 2005-02-08 04:04
#2
Vladimir Liberzon
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To Hermie LaO:
Not only in Open Plan. In Spider Project you can plan activities even in fractions of minutes that is usually necessary when the package is used for simulating technological processes.
The problem with Open Plan, Primavera and many other PM software is not in defining shift periods. They do not properly simulate shift work.
Regards,
Vladimir
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Mon, 2005-02-07 09:26
#3
Philip Jonker
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Hi all,

A good example is a case I experienced on a shutdown a few years back. We were doing a composite tube replacement on a chemical recovery furnace, and the interfaces between fit-up/welding and NDE (x-rays) became so critical that I had to re-schedule to 15 min time periods. The reason for this was that the tea breaks was 15 minutes, and the x-ray people would would setup just prior to the tea breaks, and then expose the films while the crew was out to tea. We ended up arranging two additional tea breaks per shift, and found that this aided us time wise. As a matter of interest the program I was using at the time was Open Plan Dos version 4. It had the facility of planning down to the minute, however, it had a limited on the number of time periods, I think it was something like 12000 periods, but I speak under correction.
Another area where planners use short periods, is in military planning.

Regards

Philip
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Mon, 2005-02-07 08:07
#4
Alex Wong
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Bernard

My question will hopefully bring back to your original question.

Why do we need to plan the works in half hour, or even in a min by min intergal in project?


Are we reschedule and progress in the plan in every 30min??
Is the worker only do 9hr and 35mins of works instead of 10hrs?
Is the estimation of the work should be 1hr or 1 hr and 10 min?

I still remember in my very first lesson in project management and planning, my lecturer stated a project plan is only a reflect the estimated picture of a project upto the moments you finish the plan. Right after that the plan no longer represent it correct picture unless you update it with the latest progress and info again and majority of the the data for the plan is by estimate.

Unless the schedule is update by the min, I dont think it will be useful except look good in a project report.

However, in some event/projects, planning and updating is actually happen to be in min or even seconds. Like lanuching a spaceship.

So in my opinon, the new engin will not be very common unless other system can support the min by min update and 100% accurate in forecast and actual.

Cheers

Alex
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Sat, 2005-02-05 10:57
#5
Bernard Ertl
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I think the path forward for me is clear.

Bernard Ertl
ATC Professional Shutdown / Turnaround Management System
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Sat, 2005-02-05 10:38
#6
Jonathan Kirby
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Bernard
If your working on a ’new scheduling engine’ I think it would need to go to minutes, or at least 5 minute intervals, or 1/4 hour intervals. AND it would need to be based on 24 hours per day.
We have shift pattens that vary , and have day time / night time activities . e.g rail possessions to do work over rail line we are restricted to week day 6 hour possessions at specific times in which only 4 hours work are done, at weekends the times and available hours are different. Similarly traffic switches are permitted at particular times and have to be scheduled accordingly.
also day time shift pattens vary summer to winter depending on daylight hours. i set up calendars/shift pattens to recognise this and activities shorten or lengthen [start to finish] in the transition [february , october] the ability to vary the shift in 1/2 hour increments is quite useful.
We also have shift pattens that start / finish on the half hour and have two 1/4 hour tea breaks and an 1/2 hor lunch break, so strict shift schedulling would need to cater for this i imagine.
Regards
JK
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Fri, 2005-02-04 16:04
#7
Hermie LaO
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Vladimir - Open Plan has definable shift calendar that can go down to minute incriments. Say 9:10-12:20 as one shift.
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Thu, 2005-02-03 09:36
#8
Bernard Ertl
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Thanks. I have only seen shifts beginning on the hour, but suspected that starting at other times might be practiced.

Vladimir, I’m working on a new scheduling engine. There’s always a balance between what is possible and what is practical/desired.

Bernard Ertl
ATC Professional Shutdown / Turnaround Management System
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Thu, 2005-02-03 00:32
#9
Vladimir Liberzon
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Bernard,
yes, it happens. Why did you ask it?
Regards,
Vladimir
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Wed, 2005-02-02 23:27
#10
Jaco Stadler
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Yes almost alway’s.

But I have never used it for planning purposes.

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