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Reference Construction Schedule

7 replies [Last post]
Wed, 2009-05-13 05:16
Ahmed Elkordy
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Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 20
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Hello

Does anybody know where i can get a decent "free" schedule with high level construction activities including different trades like HVAC, electrical..etc.?
I just need a reference to widen my insight and assess my own schedules. Couldn’t find anything.

Any tip would be appreciated
Thanks
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Replies

Thu, 2009-05-14 11:12
#1
Samer Zawaydeh
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Joined: 3 Aug 2008
Posts: 1664
Groups: Civil Engineering, Regional Representatives
Dear Ahmed,

You have plenty of information, now you need to construct the schedule showing all the works that are contracturally required.

Depending on the size of the project, complexity and type, you will need to organize your WBS and schedule. Meeting with your team members will reveal plenty of issues that must be considered. Planning is a continuous activity. Indeed you have a time limit to submit your schedule at the start of the project, but you can continue working on developing the schedule with more details depending on the level or zone that you are working at.

With kind regards,

Samer.
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Thu, 2009-05-14 06:34
#2
Ahmed Elkordy
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Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 20
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hi Mike, thanks for explaining top down and bottom up planning...I do need to read more on the subject.
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Thu, 2009-05-14 06:09
#3
Mike Testro
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Groups: Building Information Modelling, Content Moderators, GPCCAR Editors
Hi Ahmed

Most programmes I come across have 1 bar for m&E 1st fix across the project and then another for 2nd fix with lead lag links.

Your approach is far more sophisticated as you understand the complexities and are presenting them correctly.

I still advocate 1 sub chart for each system - it doesn’t take long when you can copy and paste the summary bars.

Bottom up Planing is when you start with a single task for one trade in one location - usually planning level 4 - and add other thrades until you can summarise them into level 3 - this is usualy a floor level or grid zone.

Then summarise all the floor levels into level 2 which would be the section - such as groundworks - structure - finishing etc.

Level 1 is the whole project.

Top down planning is the exact opposite where you start with a Top Bar with a start and end date and work down from there.

There has been a number of threads on this subject which may be worth exploring.

Best regards

Mike Testro

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Thu, 2009-05-14 04:42
#4
Ahmed Elkordy
User offline. Last seen 13 years 25 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 20
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hello everyone
thank you for responding
I have some experience in M&E projects, I do know how to break down the work into trades and fixes and I know almost all the activities and those in civil related to M&E works. there’s many aspects to it. But coordinating plumbing with HVAC with fire fighting with electrical with BMS with civil can get very complicated esp. for large projects. For example you wouldn’t want to rent a crane everytime you want to lift an AHU and move it to its floor, it costs so you try to group them in order to lessen the number of times you use the crane. Also you’d want to delay putting large exhaust fans in place because they’re likely to have plastering material and remainders of shores damaging them. Also if the electrical works include not only lighting and power but also light current systems (eg. fire alarm, public address..etc.) and building management systems. So I know that to a fair extent my schedules are ok. I just need to know how others plan the work. That’s why I need a reference of some sort.
I usually make a summarized schedule showing only WBS nodes like submittals and approvals, procurement and execution per floor including 1st, 2nd and final fixes if you want to have a general overview. And another detailed one.

I’m not sure I fully understand the concepts of bottom up and top down, maybe i use the techniques but i’m not acquainted with their names. If you mean by top down starting at the top at the lowest level of detail or by bottom up starting by the highest level of detail towards the WBS node. I think I do a little bit of both in the same schedule.
thanks again
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Wed, 2009-05-13 13:50
#5
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 7 hours ago. Offline
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Hi Samer

The last M&E project that I was involved in had - among others - 47 AHU Units all with its own system going to 75 different outlets with interface with to ceiling grids and FCU’s.

Such degree of complexity cannot be done without a clear Bottom Up planning approach.

I now advocate 1 sub chart for each system with links to whatever stage of the construction or fit out is required.

M&E interface planning cannot be done top down.

Hi Ahmed

Thanks for this interesting thread - it could go far.

Best regards

Mike Testro
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Wed, 2009-05-13 12:41
#6
Samer Zawaydeh
User offline. Last seen 5 years 38 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 3 Aug 2008
Posts: 1664
Groups: Civil Engineering, Regional Representatives
Dear Ahmed,

It depends on the Project that you have. Basically, you will need to read your BOQ and Specification in depth and creat the Schedule of works.

Tips:

1) We are running up to 17 different EM systems
2) Usually, each system will have 1st, 2nd and 3rd fix.
3) Create the WBS to encompass all the work that is required from you.
4) For each system you will have 5 different segments
a. Material submittals.
b. Shop Drawings.
c. Procurement.
d. Construction.
e. Handing over and commissioning.

Hope that the above information will assis you in your project.

Best Regards,

Samer
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Wed, 2009-05-13 10:14
#7
Mike Testro
User offline. Last seen 36 weeks 7 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 4418
Groups: Building Information Modelling, Content Moderators, GPCCAR Editors
Hi Ahmed

In my experience there is no such thing as a standard schedule that sets out the interface between M&E works and other trades.

Very simply:

M&E has three types of sytems:
1. Air
2. Liquid
3. Curren

Each system starts with a piece of kit that has a place in the structure.

1. Air goes through ducts from the Kit to the outlet.
2. Liuquid goes through pipes from a pumped source to the outlet or from a drained source to the outside.
3. Current goes through cables from a piece of kit to a distribution board and then to an outlet - these are laid in either trays or containers.

Each of these systems are installed in:
1. Horizontal Distribution Routes
2. Vertical Distibution Routes (Risers)
3. Connections between horizontal & vertical.

The usual sequence of fixing in the M&E run void is:

1. Ducting
2. Pipework
3. Power Cables
4. IT cables

Allow at least 10 days for each Floor Zone after clean and clear and 30 days for test and commissioning after all construction work is clear.

Don’t forget the external M&E works and the O&M manuals.

Best regards

Mike Testro
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