Website Upgrade Incoming - we're working on a new look (and speed!) standby while we finalise the project

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

"Status of Spools" in Oil and Gas construction ind

17 replies [Last post]
Thu, 2003-03-13 17:38
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
The most difficult aspect of a big oil and gas project (EPC environment) is the planning of spools. A serial set of spool (a pipe line) is so easy to fabricate and install. A few hundred is still manageable, that means you can still plan it in sequencial order without so much time spent and so many people involved. But when it comes to thousands of spool to be fabricated and installed and is happening at the same time, things will turn out to be complicated. Planning spools will no longer be sequential but unsystematic or randomly erected. This is the reason why welders, pipe fitters, etc. are laughing at planners because after submitting to planners what are the next spools they need to install.they believe it is they who are actually doing the planning job, These same kind of thing is happening even in most respected and biggest company until one planner I know who can single handedly manage to make a truly sequential order of fabrication, QC exam, painting and installation. This what I want to show to companies in the oil and gas industry. Can you help me?
Top

Replies

Sat, 2003-06-28 11:10
#1
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Hi Kabayan and my planning friends,

I believed the “spools tracker” develop by Raytheon Engrs is most ideal. The idea of connecting Access to an Isometric drawing is nothing new but an obvious solution to the complexity of spools planning. Though until now this idea has remain a dream (suntok sa buwan) to us, we ended up (without having a Microsoft team to do the job) to our present system that we want to share to be further improved. I know a lot of good planners will be concerned to contribute their piece of mind.

Regards,
Dani
Top
Tue, 2003-06-24 04:44
#2
Zq qz
User offline. Last seen 12 years 45 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2003
Posts: 163
Groups: None
Yes I believe in you, me myself can do that actualy.regards
Top
Mon, 2003-06-23 22:45
#3
Zq qz
User offline. Last seen 12 years 45 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2003
Posts: 163
Groups: None
This spool tracker software was develop by Raytheon Engineer now Washington Group. We use this before in one of our project in Africa. The software was develop using Access data base link to a Isometric drawing. You can also , develop this by P3 to access database using Area,partition,location system etc as link to your activities. to do this visit www.eh.com.au

regards
Top
Sun, 2003-06-22 20:58
#4
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Hi my planning friends and kabayan,

It seems again all of you are one in saying it is impossible to plan or track spool in a way that it can be used as a plan for execution. Most planners would think it is almost impossible to plan or track spools because of their various status that needs to be coordinated, plus the seemingly uncontrollable imperfect piping designs.
Planners are in limbo, so they get the information of what next spool is to be erected from foremen, painters, etc. If they do not, ubiquitous sporadic erection of spools could happen. If they do, sporadic erection might be minimized but workers in the field would take the credit of doing the planning.
Conventionally, data base softwares to record all of this things would help as you have suggested but it cannot be used for execution because it is more of a data recording - you pick up the spools that interest you and proceed to presentation.of data.
The “Spool Tracking System” that I am driving here is free and needs to be tested. I need to hear professional planners their opinion though it works for me as far as I am concern. Very fast. I wanted to believe what my friend said “What 30 people can do in one week can be done in one hour by one person.” But the thing is, as you can see nobody believes it.

PS.
Google has the Raytheon website as: WWW.raytheon.com

Top
Wed, 2003-06-18 08:40
#5
Zq qz
User offline. Last seen 12 years 45 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2003
Posts: 163
Groups: None
This software we use before in West Africa, under Raytheon Engineers and Contractors. Try to visit their web site (already forgot..).BUt if you are familiar with MS Access you can prepare your own program.
Top
Wed, 2003-06-18 08:18
#6
Gilbert Rayco
User offline. Last seen 37 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 20
Groups: Pinoy Planning Planet Community
Moises,
Im interested to know about this spool tracker software,
I would appreciate if u can provide me details?

Thanks,
Top
Wed, 2003-06-18 04:44
#7
Zq qz
User offline. Last seen 12 years 45 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Jun 2003
Posts: 163
Groups: None
Hi Danilo Kabayan. How about using database to monitor your work and schedule.ie. MS Access etc.. with this you can forecast and monitor progress/status and sorting. Or heard about spool tracker software.
Top
Tue, 2003-03-25 07:39
#8
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Dear Ed and my planning friends,

Thank you for your response and you made us happy. I just came from work and been to a heavy traffic jam.
Well be waiting for you.

Danilo Ingan-eng
Top
Tue, 2003-03-25 05:58
#9
Ed van der Tak
User offline. Last seen 43 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Mar 2002
Posts: 86
Groups: Regional Representatives
Dear Danilo,

Due to circumstances I am temporarily "off-line" for a few weeks.

I will respond tot you a.s.a.p.

See you,

Ed van der Tak
Top
Mon, 2003-03-24 08:31
#10
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Hi, Ed of Netherlands and my other planning friends,
Are you on-line? I can see the time in your country is 2:15 PM. My time here in Manila is 9:15 PM. It must be office work time for you now. Can we “talk” about the isometric planning? I am right now in front of my computer. Are you still interested to try what we claim is possible to plan isometric spools that it can be used in execution, painting, QC exam, etc. We are eager to share our knowledge which is still in testing stage. Maybe you can share ideas to enhance/improve what we have in mind.

Waiting for your reply. I hope you can recieve this mail right now so we could "chat".

Regards,
Danny
Top
Thu, 2003-03-20 00:32
#11
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Hi Ed,
Actually the system/method is still new, which is why I’m not surprised if many planners did say “impossible”. Yet I am surprised why only you has expressed interest. Maybe the system/method is no longer new afterall.
To show how it can be done, the (my friend’s) system must be tested so you and other planners can be convinced of its speed and accuracy. This is regardless of spools quantity and is happening at the same time. Can you submit a sample of “status of spools” data to be planned?
Please submit/send it to howd1295@yahoo.com. Please be reminded that the inbox capacity is only 4 mb. To make it a tough job send a file that is below 4 mb but impossible to be done manually or without a system.

I am thrilled to see the result.

Regards,
Danilo
Top
Mon, 2003-03-17 03:40
#12
Ed van der Tak
User offline. Last seen 43 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Mar 2002
Posts: 86
Groups: Regional Representatives
Hi Danilo,

I had to read again your first post, but clearly understand the question. The answer is yes, if youre friend has a clear method/system I/we are interrested in his practise in order to learn and share to planners and clients in Europe and the Middle East.

Awaiting your reaction,

Regards,

Ed van der Tak
ARAM Planning Consultants
The Netherlands
Top
Mon, 2003-03-17 03:25
#13
Danilo Ingan-eng
User offline. Last seen 18 years 13 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Posts: 13
Groups: None
Hi my Planner friends.
I expected many responses I get would come from conventional planners. I find all of your ideas in spools planning signifies, “it is impossible” or “it is almost impossible to plan”. This is where my friend (please refer to the bottom of this page) becomes significant. Actually, he can plan the spools to be erected in a truly sequential order. Normally in a big multi-national company like ours (joint venture by a Japanese and two American companies), it is done by five planners, three office engineers, QA fab shop superintendent and his manager, three painting workers, piping supervisors, etc., or a total of give and take twenty persons. He does it more than eighty (80) times faster than these people.
In addition to “sequential order of spools” which can be used for execution and many things thereof, one can accurately calculate progress of work in painting, QC exam, fabrication, and erection whether by area or by system method. These are the things my friend wants to be challenged so he can proved that it can be done.
I find this discussion very interesting. I believe we can eventually be one in idea even when we are miles apart. Let us see what electronic communication can do.
Top
Sun, 2003-03-16 16:28
#14
Ed van der Tak
User offline. Last seen 43 weeks 2 days ago. Offline
Joined: 5 Mar 2002
Posts: 86
Groups: Regional Representatives
Hi guys,

I agree that is it almost impossible to plan a complete instalation of spools in a way that it could be used as a plan for execution. Nevertheless as from a certain point in the construction phase having al isometrics/spools and (main) equipment items and structural in the schedule with the actual status and all relevant codes (such as location, prod. system,hydr. test system,comm. system, responsibility, workpackage etc.) is quit a help. Even if these "activities" are not planned (scheduled with rel.) but only database items with all info (hours,no. of welds, insulation yes or no?).

Having "underneath" your current schedule all these activties present can give you adequate info and status for your contractors team to identify problems and set priorities (matl on site? which testsystem can we finalize, which priority in commissioning? etc.). Progressing is easy and keep you up to date (various type of progressreports are possible). When construction commences you can even start linking activities per system and it becomes beter and beter. After complete installation a 100% "as built" schedule is present, might com in handy in cliam situations (you never know!).

Dont use your tool only as you might have learned, theres more you can do!!!!

If you have isometric/spool info from a (engineering or contractors) database it becomes even more beautifull (what about location info suchs as start and end marking you can draw 3D graphs in excel! which colour per status/prod system).

Good luck and enjoy your work!

Ed van der Tak
ARAM Planning Consultants
The Netherlands
Top
Sun, 2003-03-16 03:38
#15
Mary JoAnn
User offline. Last seen 17 years 39 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 3 Mar 2003
Posts: 35
Groups: None
I agree with ramellito.
It is impossible and useless to control on a barchart 1000s of microlevel piping execution activities.

The ultimate aim of monitoring Piping erection is Hydrotest (or other pressure tests) further leading to painting / insulation activities (being normally the interface point between two different contractors... and a pererequisite for startup and comissioning activities).

As for scheduling on a barchart... ideally, I prefer splitting the piping activities by Systems and then by Area in such a way that the maximum duration of each construction should not exceed 3-4 weeks. This is the maximum detail sufficient to indicate on a Level-4 barchart for a refinery or power plant project. There are various reasons for this. Typically, lack of final design and Engineering information coupled with frequent revisions of drawings during planning stage being the most common problems planners face.

To monitor the progress of each of these activities on barchart, I split them seperately in Excel or Access by Isometrics -Line Nos and Spools. Usually (unless in specific cases) updating them on weekly basis is sufficient. There are two ways of allocating weightage to each spool.. either by the "Physical weight in kg" or by "Inch-dia." of each spool.

Hope this helps.
Top
Sun, 2003-03-16 03:34
#16
Gilbert Rayco
User offline. Last seen 37 weeks 5 days ago. Offline
Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 20
Groups: Pinoy Planning Planet Community
This might help.Based from my experienced its really difficult planning,spools wise. I used "system approach method" when it comes to erection of spools. Pre-comm/Comm.team they wanted to have their utilities first(air,water,drain) for them to have head start-up, then process.
For the erectors, they prefer to erect bigger sizes mostly all header due to rigging difficulty and sometimes clashes with other structures then the off-shoots.

For Monitoring its better to used inch dia. or weld volume
to get more accurate progress and productivity measurement.

Top
Fri, 2003-03-14 20:33
#17
Rammelito Ramil H...
User offline. Last seen 2 years 2 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 5
Groups: GPC Malaysia, Petro-Chem / Oil & Gas
I agree to what you said. But we dont really have to go down to the spool or maybe joint count planning. I believe thats to much to ask and impossible to do considering the facts that in construction you wont have the complete and perfect piping designs (isometrics), materials or say full control of the fabrication or installation. What i normally do is to set sequence using the systems required on the precommissioning/commissioning stage. In that sense, the supervisor and his crew would have space to manuever their fabrication and installation sequence within your specified time frame and sequence (system).

Or, set your geographical limits or block. Identify the lines within the set blocks. Set your sequence and time frame.


Hope this help.
Top