Website Upgrade Incoming - we're working on a new look (and speed!) standby while we finalise the project

Tips on using this forum..

(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Flowcharts and CPA/CPM

12 replies [Last post]
Wed, 2002-10-23 04:19
David Bordoli
User offline. Last seen 8 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2002
Posts: 416
Groups: Building Information Modelling
I am trying to get a bit clearer idea of the development of CPA/CPM and network techniques. Received wisdom seems to suggest they took shape in the 1950s during the Polaris nuclear submarine program. If PERT and CPM diagrams are essentially flowcharts with dates attached which came first; flowcharting or the Polaris networks. I cant seem to find any references of the history and development of flowcharting. Anyone have any ideas?

Many thanks

David
dbordoli@burofour.co.uk
Top

Replies

Mon, 2002-12-16 07:55
#1
David Bordoli
User offline. Last seen 8 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2002
Posts: 416
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Hi Guy…

My apologies… I know Tomas suggested we try to explain acronyms as we go along… I forgot in this instance! ADePT = Analytical Design Planning Technique.

Best place to look is ADePT Management and the second best is PlanWeaver Site

As I implied, and its only my opinion, that the development of the ADePT methodology is one of the major break-throughs in planning. No doubt, in time, it will be strapped to the back of most Project Management software but, until then it is a very exciting and unique way of dealing with and sorting iterative tasks. My description will not have done it service so please do have a look at the website.

This is the introduction from the ADePT Management website:

Current design planning practice takes little account of the interdisciplinary, iterative nature of the process (largely due to its inherent complexity). The result of this, combined with work packaging devised to suit construction, leads to a severely compromised design process containing inevitable cycles of redesign with associated time and cost penalties. The ADePT methodology offers an opportunity to design managers similar to that given to construction planners in the 1960s with the introduction of the critical path method (CPM), by providing a logical, structured approach to planning that takes full account of the iterative nature of the design process. Traditional CPM methods cannot account for iteration because they can only analyse sequential processes.

Regards

David
dbordoli@burofour.co.uk

Visit Buro Fours New
Website
Top
Mon, 2002-12-16 07:16
#2
Guy Hindley
User offline. Last seen 5 years 36 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 91
Groups: None
Dave,

What is ADePT please?

I have tried to make contact with the APM Planning SiG but have so far had zero response. Have you come across the PMI College of Scheduling which I understand is starting to get off the ground in North America?

Regards

Guy

Top
Fri, 2002-12-13 11:30
#3
David Bordoli
User offline. Last seen 8 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2002
Posts: 416
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Hi Paul...

Yes we met a few times!

I was just trying to put into context the relative youth of formal methods of planning against the time over which great construction projects have been being built (apologies for the grammar.. it is, afterall, the end of the week).

The milestones in planning I eventually chose where 1911/19 sort of period when scientific management, flow charts anf gannt were all around for the first time. 195859 for CPM/CPA stuff. 1984 for linked barcharts, and 1994ish for ADePT!

I recently had some correspondence with Andy Newton about ADePT and the price of PlanWeaver (he tells me it is more affordable now).

Anyway, hope all is well with you. No doubt our paths will cross again soon. I was up at Loughborou last week but unfortunately little time to linger.

Have a good Christmas

David
dbordoli@burofour.co.uk

Visit the new improved Buro Four Website

Top
Fri, 2002-12-13 11:21
#4
Paul Waskett
User offline. Last seen 21 years 31 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 4
Groups: None
David

I believe we met back during my time researching ADePT and planning of design processes.

If youre still looking for background on CPM and PERT you might want to check out the following reference:

O’Brien, J.J. (1971) CPM in Construction Management: Project Management with CPM (second edition). McGraw-Hill, New York.

I came across a whole load of information when I was researching the background and I seem to remember that this one had a good summary of the origins of the techniques (although it was a while back!).

Regards

Paul Waskett
Top
Wed, 2002-11-13 11:59
#5
David Bordoli
User offline. Last seen 8 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2002
Posts: 416
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Hi Guy…

It just so happens that I was talking to Tony Ciorra, the chairman of the SIG, at a Delay and Disruption seminar last night!

When I joined the APM I contacted the chairs of the SIGs that I was interested in. I have mentioned elsewhere about the Design Management SIG, to a certain extent that is now in my hands to get motivated and organise something with the existing Group.

I also contacted the guy at the EVA SIG, he didn’t reply but he/they were in the midst of producing their definitive guide.

Tony did reply but he was in the throws or moving jobs and the SIG was coming to the end of producing a planning handbook. That work is now virtually finished I understand and they are in they are sorting out publishing and all that. Mike is a member of the SIG and has been involved in the book so maybe he could shed some light on the subject.

In talking to a few of the people after the seminar, planners in particular, there was a general consensus that planners as a group tend not to get together often enough and discuss problems. For instance, there is still much debate about the nature and ownership of float. More so maybe now that the SCL have proclaimed upon it. The problem being that not everyone agrees with the SCL and there was opinion expressed that the drafting committee of the protocol was less than representative of the audience it proposes to address; there were no members of the drafting committee there to defend their position.
Apologies for the rambling reply but it’s getting towards the end of the day.

Best regards

David
dbordoli@burofour.co.uk
Visit Buro Four
Top
Wed, 2002-11-13 10:40
#6
Guy Hindley
User offline. Last seen 5 years 36 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 91
Groups: None
I have tried to make contact with the APM Planning SIG, and have no contact for over a year. Looking onthe APM web site, there is no Planning web site, as per other APM SiGS.
IS this SIG still alive and kicking, does it publish anything and if so where.

Thanks
Top
Thu, 2002-11-07 10:25
#7
Mike Harvey
User offline. Last seen 11 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Mar 2002
Posts: 31
Groups: None
David

The whole concept of the planning Planet site has been brilliant in more ways than one. The very fact we have been able to make contact after all this time is excellent.

To be offering knowledge as we do is very fulfilling.

I have been in the industry for 40 years plus and to give something back is a pleasure of mine.

Tony Ciorra now heads up the Planning SIG and I am sure he would welcome your call.

Tony works for AYH and you can contact him on 0207 2161187.

His group is informative and generates some good topics of conversation.

I have been involved with the Planning SIG committe putting a booklet together called Essential Planning.

Keep in touch

Regards

Mike Harvey
Top
Thu, 2002-11-07 08:08
#8
David Bordoli
User offline. Last seen 8 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2002
Posts: 416
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Mike...

I remember it well, at Croydon, Im sorry I didnt match you to that event... my memory is fading… was it still the PSA then or had TBV taken over?

On the delay analysis thing I had just finished my research and was awaiting publication. It grieves me a little that the much-vaunted SCL protocol is virtually identical to the method and procedure I developed as a best practice model. I have my suspicions why that must be but I shall keep that powder dry! Anyhow, the conclusion it leads me to is that the chief practitioners in our industry don’t keep up to date with developments (academic or otherwise) until they are virtually forced down their throats.

It seems to me that there are a vocal few who hang on to old prejudices, weak experience, gut feeling and outmoded ideas. An example is how ‘experts’ tend to criticise contractors for their poor quality of planning/programming and for causing the majority of delays to projects. Whereas the truth is that contractors are the ones who do the vast majority of the programming and planning (and tend to be the only ones still who are training further generations of planners) and that the majority of delays are caused by the client/architect/engineer.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. I do try to help wherever I can and I hope my slightly more research orientated type answers provide some contrast and variation. And, yes, I have checked out your website and would advise everyone to do so. It is a mine of information, well written and presented, congratulations.

My current area of interest is in forecasting. I am developing something at the moment and will post it for comment when I have clarified my thoughts. So, if you (or anyone else) has any thoughts on this I’d be grateful!

Thanks again for getting in touch.

Regards

David
dbordoli@burofour.co.uk
Vist Buro Four
Top
Thu, 2002-11-07 06:42
#9
Mike Harvey
User offline. Last seen 11 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Mar 2002
Posts: 31
Groups: None
David

Good to see your name cropping up to assist others.

We met way back in 1995 when you gave a talk on delay analysis at the very early days of the planning SIG.

I was the then Chairman and founder of the4 organisation.

I have developed a web site to help my contemporaries and you may want to peruse it on the subject of CPM.

WWW,HPCCCONSULT.CO.UK

Hope you are keeping well.

Regards

Mike Harvey
Top
Wed, 2002-11-06 05:31
#10
Mike Harvey
User offline. Last seen 11 years 24 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 6 Mar 2002
Posts: 31
Groups: None
I have read the article with interest and you may want to add to this by visiting WWW.HPCConsult.co.uk and visiting Planning Academy.

Regards

Mike Harvey
Top
Wed, 2002-11-06 05:10
#11
David Bordoli
User offline. Last seen 8 years 30 weeks ago. Offline
Joined: 8 Apr 2002
Posts: 416
Groups: Building Information Modelling
Peter

Thanks for your interest.

My research has continued (with great assistance from Lauri Koskela) and so maybe it is time for me to share what I have discovered.

The Critical Path Method was developed in an effort led by the Du Pont company for construction purposes (Kelley and Walker 1959) and the PERT method in an effort initiated by the Special Projects Office of the American Navy for a missile program (Program Evaluation Research Task 1958).

Kelley, James E. and Walker, Morgan R. 1959. Critical-Path Planning and Scheduling. 1959 Proceedings of the Eastern Joint Computer Conference. Pp. 160-173.

Program Evaluation Research Task. Summary Report. Phase 1. Special Projects Office. Bureau of Naval Weapons. Department of the Navy. Washington, D.C. July 1958. 16 p. + app.

Program Evaluation Research Task. Summary Report. Phase 2. Special Projects Office. Bureau of Naval Weapons. Department of the Navy. Washington, D.C. September 1958. 108 p.

You are right in suggesting flowcharting preceded this, the earliest reference to flowcharting was 1922:

Gilbreth, Frank B. and Gilbreth, L.M. 1922. Process Charts and Their Place in Management. Mechanical Engineering, January, pp. 38 - 41, 70.

Regards
David
dbordoli@burofour.co.uk
Visit Buro Four
Top
Wed, 2002-11-06 03:23
#12
Forum Guest
User offline. Last seen 17 weeks 3 days ago. Offline
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 2
Groups: None
Personally I think that Flow-Charts are likely to be the first "tool" to have been used.

I have some data at home, I will get hold of it and post an other message here if I find anything useful.

Peter.
Top