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(1) Explain your problem, don't simply post "This isn't working". What were you doing when you faced the problem? What have you tried to resolve - did you look for a solution using "Search" ? Has it happened just once or several times?

(2) It's also good to get feedback when a solution is found, return to the original post to explain how it was resolved so that more people can also use the results.

Why most jobs in PP are not for India based Engineers?

26 replies [Last post]
Sat, 2010-07-17 00:28
Manik Nath
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Hello All,

This is one thing that I have noticed and last week when one of my very close friends got very frustrated after trying for more than one and half years on the jobs posted bursted out and that is why i decided to ask this question? Why most of the jobs posted in the jobs section of this wonderful forum are not meant for India based planners/project controls engineers.
Is it that this forum is for helping only Europe or US based planners/project controls specialists or the reason is something else. My friend although he is a very experienced in and an accomplished project controls specialist and wants to work in Europe or UK, but even after trying for more than one and half years for the jobs in the wonderful website he did not get any interview calls, why is it so? Is India based project controls experience (domestic and international/ offshore)not acceptable anywhere else or the reason lies somewhere else.

Please provide some views and other information relevant to this question.


Thanks and Regards,
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Replies

Mon, 2010-09-06 09:49
#1
Manik Nath
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Hi Suraj,

Thanks for posting a very important thread. My friend doesn’t want to leave India anymore, he’s already in a good position. He wanted to try out other countries in west for better experience. So he tried many time PP jobs forum. But in the end got frustrated and then one day when he shared this thought, I thought of discussing this, thinking there might other ppl as well who share the same thinking. So i thought of starting this discussion to do some facts collection, which might guide others in their career hunt.

Once again thank you very much for your thoughts.

Thanks and Regards,

Manik
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Mon, 2010-09-06 09:14
#2
Suraj Bhatt
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Hi Manik!!!

I have tried PP job page for many years but no gain except the discussion forums that are a gem.
Why your friend wishes to leave India???
India is where the action is!!!I work in a commercial zone in Delhi where we have 11 5-star hotels under construction.
We have many so many expats joining our team here in India and 60,000 people came back to India last year from US and many doing well now.
Relax!
World is changing slowly;feel it.
Cheers,
Suraj
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Tue, 2010-08-17 09:16
#3
Manik Nath
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Hi Manivachagan,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Its good to hear something different and good to know about your own experience. Please share any other relevant information so that others can also benefit from the same.

Once again thank you very much.

Cheers!

Manik
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Tue, 2010-08-17 07:49
#4
Manivachagan Chel...
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Manik

I am not sure about advt through PP but even for Indians planning jobs are available in North America or UK. It mainly depends on recruiting company’s time plan. If they plan well in advance then they can go through immigration formalities in a timely manner.

I am indian and was recruited for Canada in 2007.But now market situation is not good.Hence there may be difficulties.

Regards
Mani
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Fri, 2010-08-13 10:52
#5
Joel Gilbert
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The same is happening here big projects have been put on hold. That is why I say ride the storm
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Fri, 2010-08-13 06:55
#6
Manik Nath
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Hi Joel,

Thanks a lot for your advice and will try to follow it. Thank you very much for you valuable advise for fact gathering. Is south africa also facing the same kind of scenario like UK and europe.

Regards,

Manik Nath
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Fri, 2010-08-13 02:42
#7
Joel Gilbert
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Hi Manik

Dont let a philosiphical thinking Scarllet Pimpernel work you up, most of us ignore the mail when we see it is from him

The fact is that many countries have tighten and will tighten foreigners from working in their countries as the unemployment us huge, hopefully this will relax when the project pick up. you just got to hold on to what you have or diversify
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Thu, 2010-08-12 12:24
#8
Manik Nath
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Hi Mike,

I understand someone being racist and using filth, so he/she must be banned.

But making direct and personal targeting is also something which i am not used to; also i started this post to gather facts and see why certain factors are not working for certain set of peoples. It hurts a lot when somebody makes a direct personal comment when you are discussing certain things and trying to figure out why it is not working.

Regards,

Manik
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Thu, 2010-08-12 10:26
#9
Mike Testro
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Hi Manik

Most of us have got used to Scarlet’s rather direct and abrasive use of language and tend to ignore it.

No forum rules are being broken.

He/she does occasionally talk some sense so the occasional rant is tolerated.

Last year a long standing PP member started spouting out racist - sexist filth so he was banned from PP.

Scarlet is a long way from that.

Best regards

Mike Testro

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Thu, 2010-08-12 09:31
#10
Manik Nath
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Scarllet,

Do you even know what is meant by dictating on what needs to be done. If it would have been dictating and I would have to dictate then I would not have even posted it here. I would directly get it done, this is dictating, I am posting things here because i want to know certain fact of things and based on those facts I suggested it. The thing i said was a suggestion and not a dictation.

and how does it make a difference weather i post this here or my friend, the truth is this is a issue at the moment and i felt it needed discussion, and moreover like your words say "present his case", Scarllet this is not a court room where a case is being heard or a trial for a alleged culprit being done, this is a discussion, I am a sure a lot of other people also face the same issue as my friend does. And change requests come whenever anything is being felt like an issue and that too if it is felt needed.

I posted the discussion here to know opinions and everybody’s feelings about it, and there are some people who feel the same, if it is felt it needs to be done then it will be and if it does not then not. But there was no need to get personal and personal targetting was not expected as a member of this forum.

Remember, it not only needs courage to reach one’s goal, it also needs team spirit, team playing, intellect and right direction.

Manik
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Thu, 2010-08-12 09:04
#11
Scarllet Pimpernel
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Manik,

You start to dictate what you want, how it will be done and you are using your friend as an alibi.

I advised PP admin not to listen to whimsical demands.

since even, if the demands will be meet, it is still doubtful if a job can be conclude.

The philosiphical thinking is "GOD has HIS own way of revealing events. If it is not for you, then, there must be something greater to come someday.

There is no need to impose and change the system in the name of someone’s friend.

Manik if ever your friend really feels what you feel why dont your friend be brave enough to present his case.

Remember, it needs courage to reach for each one’s goal.

GB, PTL, TY,
Scarlett
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Thu, 2010-08-12 08:17
#12
Gary Whitehead
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Hi Manik,

Many of the job adverts do have something like ’eligible to work in UK’ as a requirement, but yes I think it would be useful if all jobs did so.

Why not make your suggestion in the ’improving planning planet’ forum? PP admin checks that forum more often than any other.
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Thu, 2010-08-12 06:05
#13
Manik Nath
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Hi Nigel,

Thank you very much for the reply. Then would it not be advisable to make the job postings in such a way that if it is required to have work permit before applying for a job, then only those who have a valid work permit can send the application and those who do not have cannot even apply, atleast that way people like my friend would not hope for any to happen or anything good to come out and when the hopes get crushed and not get frustrated. If all think that it should be made that way then we can ask the administrator to make it that way.

Regards,
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Thu, 2010-08-12 05:42
#14
Nigel Winkley
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Refering to a previous company for whom I worked...
Have to agree with the last couple of posts. I have had problems with trying to get a working visa for a foreign national. Generally they have to be coming in as a senior role and I have had to justify the additional costs (for visa, relocation etc.) to my management. Additionally, there is no face to face interview but only telephone and occasionally video call. Not the best way to interview someone.
As to why your friend had no reply, most agencies don’t bother replying to the applicants that are not considered. Bad form, I know. Personally I also respond, even if to say "sorry, you were unsuccessful", even then explaining why if required.
Nige
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Thu, 2010-07-29 09:22
#15
Alan Chadwick
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If you dont select that you have a visa or are eligible to work in the UK application go straight into agencies junk mail folder and gets deleted
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Thu, 2010-07-22 08:34
#16
Balaji Surendiran
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Manik,

The reason is simple and straight forward...Companies finds it harder for the past couple of years to issue Visa (Tier 2)to foreign nationals due to tougher immigration rules in place. With new immigration cap in place from 19th July it become even tougher and companies need to justify employing foreign nationals.

Balaji
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Thu, 2010-07-22 06:44
#17
Joel Gilbert
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Hi Manik,

PS

The main function of PP is to help Planners with Problems, having jobs is just a bonus

Joel
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Thu, 2010-07-22 06:41
#18
Joel Gilbert
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Hi Manik,

Your friend should not feel lonely I have been a member for many years on PP and I never got a job using PP and I have tried many years. I get employment by using a search engine and sending my CV’s and this has worked for me for the last 10 years. When times are bad like now, then it is time to work local until things pick up again.

I still keep on trying in PP but you can see by the amount of jobs on PP others job web sites are taking over.

So search the web for results, and dont give up.
Like they say if you dont have a ticket you cant win the lotery.

Joel
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Tue, 2010-07-20 06:12
#19
Oliver Melling
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Manik,

I think it comes down to a few simple things

1.) Employers based in the UK perceive that UK & European employees are better educated.

2.) Immigration takes time and employers cant wait that long in a projectised environment.

3.) Employers globally dont like to recruit those who have not worked in the country before. For example, all advertised jobs in asia that i read ask for people with experience of working in the country before.

My advice is to get a job in a US or UK owned company that has offices in India, then see if you can transfer internally.
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Tue, 2010-07-20 05:35
#20
Manik Nath
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Hi Mark,

Well he already is an accomplished project controls engineer here in India. He is interested to move out and make a career in the countries that we are talking about. I know that at the moment Australia is full, but again as I said this is not about today’s scenario or the scenario after the recession which hit the peak almost a year ago, this is more of a cumulative thing, which is like about two years or more.

Regards,

Manik Nath
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Tue, 2010-07-20 04:23
#21
Manik Nath
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Hi All,

First of all thanks for participating in the discussion, and providing your valuable thoughts.

@Gary: i completely agree and the link of BBC you provided was quite informative, but then the frustration got developed over a period of two years, the current economic session has been in place only for the last one year or so, also another of my friend agrees to it as he tried the forum in 2006-2007, i also tried the jobs market during that period when the economy was booming, still there was no response, what could be reason for that?

@Sudharma C: Thanks very much for participating in this discussion. Well for UK/Europe I would say the same thing as above, the question still remains unanswered, not just for current economic conditions but its for over a period of time, this holds true for a lot of pacific countries as well, including malaysia (where a lot of planning related projects exists) plus other countries like singapore, hongkong, Japan etc, there is no response from even those countries, even after trying for more than two years no response, is it that very tough?

Thanks and Regards,

Manik Nath
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Tue, 2010-07-20 03:58
#22
Mark M
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& in my opinion so they should!! Don’t think about coming to Aus either, we are full! On a side note, if your friend has had so many rejections is he really up to the jobs he’s applying for??? Maybe a call centre operator, clerk or data entry possition in his homeland would be more suitable?
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Tue, 2010-07-20 02:55
#23
Gary Whitehead
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The current system for skilled workers such as planners is that a UK company has to advertise a post for at least a month. After this, if it believes it cannot fill the post with a UK person, it can ask the government for permission to recruit from India (or wherever). So yes, it is very difficult.

With the economic climate such as it is, I would suggest your friend may as well give up on his plan of moving to UK. There are too many unemployed UK residents who would be willing to fill any post advertised.

I’m afraid it will also get worse as our new government is planning to make it even harder for non-EU economic migrants to come to the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10436228
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Mon, 2010-07-19 21:57
#24
Sudharma C.
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Hi Manik
i would think these are hard times in europe at the moment, and if i am not mistaken the employers would have to give priority to local employement first, before they consider hiring a foreigner.

the other option your friend could do is look at other trades, to give himself a wider opportunity for employment.

rgds
sc
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Mon, 2010-07-19 01:39
#25
Manik Nath
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Hi Gary,

Your reasons seem to be good and i agree to them, but then why is it that even in almost two years time no one ever responded to the calls made by him. Resumes sent in hundreds of dozens to employers and career agents, but no response, are the immigration norms so difficult. I have worked in UK for sometime although i was on deputation and have no idea of the genral immigration norms, but two years!!!!, isn’t that a long period?


Regards,
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Sun, 2010-07-18 15:50
#26
Gary Whitehead
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I am not an expert in recuritment, but here are some possible reasons:

1) Any PP member can post job adverts to this forum. I would guess there are not many Indian recruitment agencies who use thid facility. Why, I do not know.

2) Certainly in the UK, and I think in many other European countries and also USA, there are limits to immigration which make it very difficult to offer jobs to non-UK or Non-EU nationals. This is probably a big reason why your friend is struggling to find work here.
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