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Working in the UAE as a Senior Planner / Manager

26 replies [Last post]
Thu, 2008-07-10 08:56
Ian Cowx
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Are there any UK experienced Senior Planners / Planning Managers out there who have a view on the work available in the UAE ?

We all know there is an enormous amount of opportunity for the best people, what is the general concensus on UK v UAE ?
Is it attractive, would you rather just stay in the UK and ride it out, does tax-free actually make a difference, is the culture a concern....? So many questions !
Ian
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Replies

Mon, 2008-07-21 02:53
#1
Carmen Arape
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Chris,

Fully agree with you regarding the wonderful Industry we work in. Some planners are where they are not because they are good or have proper concepts JUST because the market put them there. The lack of planning background for Clients and Project managers, the better for working as Planner in the project.

Cheers,

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Mon, 2008-07-21 01:13
#2
Chris Oggham
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Ron,

Just to put you straight on a point, Charlie and I are most certainly not the same person, it’s a toss-up which of us would feel most insulted. I’ll offer you the same suggestion I frequently make to Charlie, "Read the posts", especially before you start offering trite advice to "remember the wonderful Industry we work in."

Chris Oggham
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Sat, 2008-07-19 06:05
#3
Charleston-Joseph...
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Am I scaring you???

No, NO. NO.

This is only an insight. There are always positive solution. Remember, we have western education and that we have freedom and the capacity to look at construction situation / problems in proper perspective, so we can present the best solution and best way to move forward.

How this will be translated in reality will depend when you start to work here.

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Sat, 2008-07-19 06:01
#4
Charleston-Joseph...
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You see,

The expatriate with western education is a very small community. They are hired with highest salary range.

The rest of the working clase are not western educated, so this people are watching the western educated and keep thinking "why are we paying western educated personel higher salaray compared to others.

This is also the question or the intangible factor that a UK or western senior planner/manager must consider.

Can you provide solution to the present situation and push the construction progress to the maximum???

Are you really value added???

If the margin is small working in UK compared to UAE, I would suggest better stay in UK, otherwise, you will not last one month.

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Sat, 2008-07-19 05:22
#5
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Ron,

You are correct with regards to enlightement.

It is common to find advertise executive management position with the phrase "WESTERN EDUCATED".

Why is this so???? Because people believe there is something is WESTERN EDUCATION that somehow provide solutions/value added within the parameter of time, budget and quality otherwise there is no point of hiring western educated person.

The most important aspect of western education is freedom and democracy. In school, my country is not western but we follow western education similat to the American curriculum, we are taught to think freely and express our own opinion/idea without fear of being ridicule or bullied by self proclaim genius.

So,, a western educated person was trained in school to be independent minded, to create solution to the present situation that hinder progress in construction activities. That is the premium that employers are willing to pay higher salary.

Unfortunately, please read the thread "SALARY SURVEY AMONG US".

That what happen.

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Sat, 2008-07-19 02:56
#6
Ron Baird
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Hi Everyone,

I think Charlie and Chris are one and the same person and they use their personas to bring a little light relief to our forums.
On the Enlightenment, Scotland and Britain were at the forefront of this glorious period of our history.
We gave the world David Hume (Philosophy), Adam Smith (Economics) , David Livingstone , The Adam Brothers (Architects) and great innovations in Industry. In Britian Issac Newton and a plethora of Industrial Giants gave the World The Industrial Revolution.
We Planners and Project Managers are working as a direct result of the ingenuity and brilliance of that Age of Enlightenment.
So Charlie or Chris or whoever please remember the wonderful Industry we work in.
PS There were many other countries and people across the World that gave The Enlightenment there gifts it is just that I cannot list them all here.
Ron
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Fri, 2008-07-18 09:16
#7
Carmen Arape
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Richard,
Comments ???

I can add to this topic the following:
Why someone would like to get out of Europe and go somewhere else, let’s say to a no developed countries??
-to have a better weather: all Europe suffers of bad, unpredictable weather. Once that you have lived in places with 4 seasons of 3 months each, this permanent winter moving between mild , medium or strong 7 months winter is exhausting.

-to be in a different culture: any culture has positive things to offer. Get out of your own culture will enrich anyone.

- try to have a multicultural project experience. Working with locals, you get sick of all team complaining about the same matters.

- If you are single, why not to try to match with someone with different culture.

-Because in some countries, working as an expat you get the best of the best. For instance, housing, cars, neighborhood, medical treatment, maid to help with the housekeeping, international schools for your KIDS and so on. Living in Uk or any European country, with your salary you can not afford to pay such privileges reserved only for rich people.

Cheers,
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Fri, 2008-07-18 03:20
#8
Chris Oggham
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Hi Steve,

I see from your post #17 that you have experienced the most common reaction to Charlie’s remarks. Richard summed up Charlie’s contributions rather neatly, but to be fair, occasionally even Charlie comes up with something useful. It’s just that for the life of me and can’t remember when it last happened.

Chris Oggham
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Thu, 2008-07-17 07:29
#9
Steve Craine
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I see that your slant is from the eastern camp on this, another subject that you seem so familiar with and I find it rather amusing that you Differentiate between western, English and American which is in fact is an oximoron paradox dont you think
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Thu, 2008-07-17 06:57
#10
Charleston-Joseph...
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Are you sure.

Maybe English Textbook did not mentioned it.

Search the internet. use goggle

In history, there was DARK AGES, ABSOLUTE MONARCHY, Then, Enlighthenment,

This is the result of my search in goggle, wikipedia...

The Age of Enlightenment is a term used to describe a phase in Western philosophy and cultural life centered upon the eighteenth century. ...

I find it strange for history major not encountering this word. Maybe, one reason why your empire grow, your folks was never enlighten... keep up slaves, suppress the natives.. etc.,

You were never enlighten. I think so. So lost your empire because the Americans don’t want you to re-posses your former colony after World War 2. Because the Americans are the one Englighten.

and I read American Bookds.


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Thu, 2008-07-17 06:35
#11
Steve Craine
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As a history major for my Bsc, during my studies I never come across a period in history called "Enlightenment" in any of the text books or thesis I read
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Thu, 2008-07-17 06:17
#12
Charleston-Joseph...
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Richard,

you are wrong, I’m not Anti-Western

I followed Western thoughts, democracy comes from Greece, propagated by the Romans. Lie in monaateries during the DARK Ages, reappear during the Enligthenment, champion by the French, suprresed by Hitler and the commies, and now the mission of Americans to democratize the world.

I studied Western thoughts, I believe in Western thoughts, it is the greatest and brialliant idea the World had given to mankind.

I practice western thoughts. I live my life living the ideals of western thoughts. And I know how to fit in any situation, in any culture, in any workplace around the world because of my beliefs and practive of western thoughts. I did not get corrupted or I did not compromise my ideals on western thoughts.

So Richard you are dead wrong.
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Thu, 2008-07-17 05:50
#13
Steve Craine
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WTF???????/
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Thu, 2008-07-17 05:43
#14
Charleston-Joseph...
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LOVE LOVE LOVE,

This is my belief.

I’m a Christian.

The essence of Christianity is LOVE. My LORD JESUS sacrifice HIS life for LOVE.

The greatest LOVE is to LOVE my Enemy.

If someone throw me stone, I will throw him bread.

This is the LOVE that I know, sometimes it is hard to practice, but believe me, this is my quest.

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Thu, 2008-07-17 04:56
#15
A D
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Back home, we used hav a say: Everything is fair in Love and war.

Seems it has chanegd now to: Everywhere is war, where there is LOVE and Fear.

Ian, dont worry, u can see this donkey fight in lot of threads between these two CO’s (Charlie Orbe and Chris Oggham).

Good fun though

:-)
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Thu, 2008-07-17 04:44
#16
Ian Cowx
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Gentleman, could I please call a halt to this. My inbox is full and the original thread has been lost somewhere.

I appreciate different views on my original subject but we appear to have descended into a bit of a personal attack on each other.

Love is peace and peace is love, let’s all be friends and be happy.

Thanks,

Ian.
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Thu, 2008-07-17 04:39
#17
Chris Oggham
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Charlie,

I think that the latest post from the Guest Planner says it all really; once again you’ve misinterpreted the information that has been given and reacted with intolerance. Given your reaction is it any wonder that Guest Planner signed in as such intead of under his normal PP sign-on.

Chris Oggham
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Thu, 2008-07-17 04:33
#18
Charleston-Joseph...
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Why you ever make yourself igconito is a shame.

It is the fear in you that inhibit open and honest expossee of birght ideas.

It is really a shame.

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Thu, 2008-07-17 04:31
#19
Charleston-Joseph...
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Guess Planner,

This is the most democratically forum ever existed in the universe.

Anybody can throw reply to any post, or place a post, irrespective of nationalities for as long as that person obey the forum rules and guidelines, subject to moderator interpretation of anyone’s post.

I still stick to my previous conclusion base on the profile you presented. Anyone who factors mathematically the tangible facts is bound to fail since there are lots of intangible to be considered in working to other places other than their own village/cities/home country.

Now that you reveal not the total you, so let say what you want to say, and that it. okay!!!

I can only say that I agree with your right to say and I can also say I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU..... period

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Thu, 2008-07-17 03:11
#20
Charleston-Joseph...
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Chris,

you really do not understand waht you are reacting about in my post because you did not work here. Whatever little knowledge you got hold is only dangerous and not sufficient for you to conclude that what what I’m saying is as per your post

The facts remains

as senior planning manager you will lived and work with ....

as I said in my previous post.

That is the facts. The intangible facts is the working relationship which will depends upon an individual character, strength, motives, maturity etc. that will sustain him working as Senior Planner / Manager in UAE irrespective of nationalities.

And if a person will only factors the tangible using mathematics, then, that is bound to fail because there are lots of intangible factors that influence a person behaviour when working in places other than his or her village/cities/home countries.

That is what I’m trying to say.

And since the guess planner profile himself/herself, then I made that conclusion that he/she will not last one month.

The options are open to prove otherwise. The guess planner can prove me wrong if he/she will dare to work as Senior planner / Manager.
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Thu, 2008-07-17 02:57
#21
Chris Oggham
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Charlie,

As usual you let your emotions get the better of you. This makes your posts irrelevant to the issues under discussion, incoherent and really rather pointless.

Chris Oggham
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Thu, 2008-07-17 02:07
#22
Charleston-Joseph...
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Oh Chris,

You’re Alive and reacting in the same old fashion to my post. You never grow up Chris.

The fact "backed by facts" as you assumed is not based on facts the intangilbe facts since the sum of all facts was incomplete. And study of LOGIC taught us that

"incomplete facts is not true so it is not the FACTS (please don’t confuse this with "WHAT THE FUCK??

That is why I present my conclusion.

And of course, I do not hate anybody, hate will not help anyone and is the ground for terrorism.

I HAVE A VERY STRONG FAITH OF MY GOD.

It is just my way of saying candid view,
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Thu, 2008-07-17 01:22
#23
Chris Oggham
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Charlie,

What on earth are you talking about? The Guest Planner gave a reasoned response backed by facts as to why, at the moment, he/she would not take a post in UAE. You reply with a barely coherent stream of vituperation. What is your problem, apart from the obvious one that you seem to hate anybody who happens to work in London?

Chris Oggham
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Thu, 2008-07-17 00:28
#24
Charleston-Joseph...
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and beside that,

you have to learn to live and worked with Arabs, Indians, Pakistani, Russians, British, all nationalities

not to mentioned the mafia of nationalities, including your very own.

Your first time in Arab world will not make you last one month considering your love of your family

maybe you will cry and fly back to LONDON and seek comfort and warmth your native land.

It is not a bed of roses ... (but you can sing it ala bon jovi).


On the other hand, it will make you a better person and broad understanding of people living this this world.


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Fri, 2008-07-11 04:20
#25
Ian Cowx
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Joel, an interseting view, thanks. The work I tend to see is not shift cycle at all, I believe that is more applicable to the oil an gas industry.

Construction roles are standard permanent positions with around 30 days holiday to be taken when required.

Ian.
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Thu, 2008-07-10 14:08
#26
Joel Gilbert
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Generally the pay is not attractive, judging from what is available and the salary offered it is targeted at people from GCC countries. The same goes for Saudi and Qatar with extremely long leave cycles like 12 and 2 or 14 and 2 or the carrot of a permanent position (Haha)

Cheers
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