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Bid Evaluation Methodology

30 replies [Last post]
Norzul Ibrahim
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Hi Guys,

Based on your experience, is it a common practice to separate the technical and commercial evaluation of a particular contract.

In our company’s practice for all size of projects, we require the bidders to submit the technical and commercial proposal separately.

Thanks

norzul

Replies

Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Chris,

Your current general information seems to be rusted.

Maybe you need a new Guiness Book of Record, encylopedia Britanica or Microsoft Encarta.

Burj Dubai less than 1000 meters???? Read a lot of newspaper for you to lead PP forum (Read - Lead).

Oh come on, a little research is good for your planning in replying thread, no need for primavera P3 v3.1.

Cheers,

Charlie
Chris Oggham
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Clive,

I’m with you and Oscar.

Charlie may have a point though, if by "history" he means something has been superceded by something else. For example, the Mori tower when completed will be the tallest building in the world until the completion of the Burj Dubai. So Charlie may mean that because the Burj Dubai will be taller that the Mori tower, then the Mori tower has been superceded and is "history".

If that is the case, the Madinat al Hareer project in Kuwait and the Enviromission Solar Tower in Australia, both of them 1000 metres or more supercede the Burj Dubai. This, by Charlie’s reckoning at least, make the Burj Dubai history, so it does make you wonder why he keeps rabbiting on about it.

Regards

Chris Oggham
Clive Randall
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Charlie
for your ease of reference and to set the record straight
The Mori tower is still under construction and until the Burj Dubai is finished will be the tallest building in the world.
Westlands road is yet to commence
IFC2 was completed last year.
I am at somewhat of a loss to ascertain how you consider these projects to be history.

I would note that all the above projects were bid competitively. I am aware that the Burj was also bid competitively as I had some involvement in the process. Guess that makes me in the "now" and "updated" maybe even "cutting edge" but hardly outside the envelope which I will leave to you.

The desert I knew, excuse me know is no different. The issues remain the same. The projects are the same and a considerable amount of the infrastructure the city still relies upon was constructed a long time ago. On this basis I fail to see the logic of your point.

There is little need to start a thread for Gary and myself regarding our experience, we share it freely on this website over a considerable number of threads. The reason I provided you with the very briefest of resume’s was to identify your propensity for providing your opinion on matters where you had little idea of the facts or background. I quote from your thread "I believe it is you that need to look back at your experience and ask this question "WHAT IF....., then and then (sic) you will know the real meaning to be hard core PP member" So I did look back Charlie and provided yourself with the ability to do so also.

I may not be an x rated PP member and I am of course willing to admit to that when you publish your experience for comparison. Until that time Charlie I would respectfully request that your remarks as to others experience or experinces are limited to what they say not what you perceive they may be.

To others who are waiting for the bid evaluation thread to resume I apologise for this dreadfull interuption.

Kind regards
Clive
Gary France
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Charlie,

You suggest that the work of PEO members should be posted here in PP for free. All of the work of the PEO is already available for free on the PEO website, so there is no need to re-publish it on PP. You don’t need to be a member to access any of our information. I totally agree with you that it has value if published – that is exactly why it is published for free already!

As for merging PEO with PP, each has different objectives and therefore there is little point. We do different things, however I would be interested in hearing your business proposition as to why you think this would be a good idea.

You also say that I should inspire PEO’s to be active contributor to PP – if you had looked at the PEO website, you would have seen that we do this already!

Gary.
Charleston-Joseph...
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Clive,

Those structures were History.

Be updated and get into the now, or present tense

And you will come to realize the desert you once knew is different.

Please we will go back to the Bid Evaluation Methodology.

I plan to start at thread about your experience including Gary. Maybe there is something exemplanary about it. In this way we dont have to interupt the reply of particular thread expounding on your bio-history, life story or other things that what we are talking in the thread.

How about that? Is this allowed in PP

Cheers,

Charlie
Clive Randall
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Charlie
An interesting concept
Please refer to the following
IFC2
18 Westlands Road
Mori Tower
Fairly high structures in which I have had a small involvement

Hong Kong airport in which I had a small involvement
Broadgate in which I had a small involvement

Citibank plaza Hong Kong, the centre hong Kong, central plaza Hong Kong in which I had a small involvement

Dubai and Abu Dhabi spent 3 years there in 1985 to 1988 before it was as easy as it is now and when the desert was closer. Spent 6 months in Algeria in the mountains and desert and a further year in Nigeria in the bush.

[Deleted by Moderator.]

To date I have worked in over 20 countries on 4 continents.
Although this may not reach the experience level you have I am the planning manager of a Company turning over US 1 billion per year in Hong Kong alone which also happens to be the 8th largest contractor in the world.

[Deleted by Moderator. No personal attacks, please.]


Clive
Charleston-Joseph...
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Also Clive,

Dubai is constructing the tallest tower in the world, BURJ DUBAI,

I’m sorry for you, you miss out this mega project.

Do you know that when Petronas was constructed, I was also working in Malaysia.

Now, Im here in Dubai, experiencing again one of the wonders of the world, Burj Dubai, Palm Island

I believe, it is you that need to look back at your experience and ask this questions "WHAT IF ...., then and then you will know the real meaning to be a hard core PP member

Cheers

Charlie
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Clive,

You really dont know the specifics.

Dubai and Abu Dhabi are cosmopolitan cities not desert.

It is the best place to live better than Hong Kong (IMHO).

You always jumping and fishing Clive.

Why not try your luck in other place than HONGKY town.

Cheers,

Charlie
Charleston-Joseph...
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And also Gary,

I read those members paid huge sum

Oh boy,

Those works by PEO members should be posted here in PP

for free and of course it will be subjected to forensic analysis on how they arrive at those conclusions

In this way, the works will have value and not just a paper to become a member of PEO including paying Huge money

Cheers

Charlie
Clive Randall
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Something like the hand works at the same speed as the fantasy
too long in the desert really time to go home
Clive
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Gary,

You are giving a de-service to your very own PEO.

Surely those members that labour hard to be one of PEO should have their works quoted here in PP.

I would suggest you start a thread about PEO’sm

But then you should be a guiding light to inspire you PEO’s to be active contributor to PP or how about ....

Arranged for merging PEO with PP (you can include this in the main thread "IMPROVING PLANNING PLANET"

How you will do it, it is up to your leadership, planning skills and vision including six sense.

Cheers,

Charlie

Chris Oggham
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Gary,

Great idea!

Clive,

Same reaction!

Charlie,

It isn’t going to be anyone else.

Regards

Chris Oggham
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Chris, Gary and Clive:

Actually the sentence would have been like this "It is you again".

I was an encoding mistake (you know thoses things happens - sometimes the hand is faster than the mind).

I apologies for the inconvinience cause and the effect it got on the three of you.

Cheers and lets live in this beautiful planet.

Charlie

Clive Randall
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ha ha bang
planning labourer laughing his head off
Clive
Gary France
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I have an idea. How about a "Charlie Thesaurus" that could help to explain some of the most used Charlie sayings.

Perhaps the man himself could start this off by providing meanings for some of the following Charlie’isms.

"The word is politics and power."
"Six Sense, a very important ingredient to a planner."
"Remember: Planner Omno Universale - The Universal Planner the ultimate Quest."
"I is you again??"
"But before the start of New Year inclusive of all calendars will make some punching-punching."
"Planning without using software is out of my league. I consider it primitive planning."
"And when you meet the bestest, your vey best will only be kids playing around construction site."

Honestly Charlie, you crack me up sometimes.


Best wishes,

Gary
Chris Oggham
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No Charlie,

You is you, I is me, and you don’t need sixth sense to know when someone is taking the proverbial. If you are going to do that, try to be a little less obvious and a little more amusing.

Chris Oggham
Charleston-Joseph...
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OH Chris,

I is you again??

Six Sense, a very important ingredient to a planner.

Cheers
Chris Oggham
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Hi Clive,

I agree with your reasoning, using the thesaurus in MS Word, I found banned, barred and prohibited as synonyms for disqualified. I didn`t find power or politics anywhere, I think Charlie is just trying to wind you up.

After all in post #11 he says "I respect your freedom to express you opinion but this time I disagree."
While in post #13 he says "you can not use those thesarius words unless you know the specifics."

If we don`t know the specifics how can Charlie be so sure you can’t use them? I think it`s just a wind up.

Regards

Chris Oggham
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Clive,

All those thesarius words you just mention means nothing.

The word is politics and power.

That why you can not use those thesarius words unless you know the specifics. The two words: politics and power changes the equation.

I know you know what i mean.

Cheers,

Charlie
Clive Randall
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Charlie

Disqualified
incapacitate
useless
unprepared
unskillful
disentitle

drawn from the "Thesaurus of english words and phrases
classified and arranged so as to facilitate the expression of ideas and assist in literary composition."

While disqualified may mean many things to many men the word is clear and requires little interpretation.

However I too would be interested to see if Norzul’s meaning of technically disqualified follows the norm. Should do if post 3 from Norzul is to be relied upon.

I would also be interested in more detail from yourself on how a technically non compliant bid can be accepted.

Of course if the acceptance is based on a movement of the goal posts by a retender or a change of the technical compliance criteria this is a matter for the client to consider and as a rule I would suggest is not a practice to be encouraged by contractors or for that matter clients.

Clive
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hello Clive,

The bidder is removed - OH really? Is this what Norzul said

Norzul said "... then they are considered technically disqualified."

I’m asking Norzul because i want to know what will Norzul do?

Is the English phrase word "... then they are considered technically disqualified." the same as "The bidder is removed" in the context of Bidding for construction job?

Well anyway Clive I’m not asking you, I’m asking Norzul. I respect your freedom to express you opinion but this time I disagree.

Hello Norzul, in my experience not all bids that are Technically non compliant were strike out in the bidding process. I did experience wherein we stood ground on our technical proposal completely different from the tender to the point that the client agreed that our technical proposal should be incorporated and should be priced by all bidders to ensure fair playing field. I did experience the bids we submitted were not technically compliant but we were still allowed to submit our commercial proposal.

I’m asking you to know how it is done in Malaysia because the experieced I mentioned happened in a different country.

Cheers,

Charlie
Clive Randall
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Charlie
Norzul clearly states what happens if the bid is technically non compliant
The bidder is removed
Fair and reasonable approach to ensure all tenderers understand the project.
We often amplify the difficulties of a project to ensure the client is made aware of the problems and possible solutions. From this position the client can review how others have or have not dealt with the pervceived problems.
Clive
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Norzul,

What will you do if a bidder is technically not in compliance to the tender?

Charlie
Norzul Ibrahim
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Hi Guys,

Our normal practice is that the technical evaluation process will involve detailed evaluation of the Technical and Unpriced Commercial Proposals.

The evaluation will be conducted as follows :
Phase 1 - Completeness Of Submissions.
Phase 2 - Compliance With Mandatory Requirements.
Phase 3 - Compliance With Technical Requirements.

Deviation will be identified and Bidders will be requested to comply with the Invitation To Bid (ITB) requirements through clarification questionnaires. If after series of clarification, the Bidders still don’t comply with item 1 & 2, then they are considered technically disqualified.

Cost impacts arising from bid clarifications shall be submitted separately in sealed envelopes and only to be opened during commercial evaluation.

Is this a common practice based on your experiences?

Thanks

norzul
Norzul Ibrahim
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Clive,

In our experiences we don’t have a scoring system 50% for technical & 50% for commercial. Once the bidders comply with the technical evaluation criteria then the commercial will decide. Normally the lowest will get the job.

However, if the price too "low" as compared to the estimated price, then we may select the next lowest bidder. But "low" is quite subjective and there is no clear guideline. There are few cases but not quite common, where we select the second lowest bidder. The process to justify the 2nd lowest bidder to the tender committee is quite tedious.

Thanks

norzul

Clive Randall
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Norzul
The idea of a two envelope system really comes into its own when you evaluate tenders on a scoring system ie 50% tech 50% commercial or some other ratio
That way the guy who gets the best technical score (ie probably undertsands the job the best) is not penalised because he has allowed the correct price. We are currently looking at tenders where the split is 60 40 tech commercial.
As to e bay bidding I agree with Gary if you want it cheap you must allow a contingency for the problems.
Clive
Norzul Ibrahim
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Gary,

Separating technical & commercial is a common practice in our company, in fact it is the only practice since I joined the company 15 yrs ago....so far no problem...

However, just trying to think outside the box, what about if we simultaneously open the technical & commercial proposal. From the commercial proposal we will be able to know whether the bidders fully understand the total scope of work.

norzul
Gary France
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Norzul,

Two points here…..

I am not sure is it a common practice to separate the technical and commercial evaluation of a particular contract, but it is certainly good practice. The best way is to evaluate the technical aspects of the bid first, then open the commercial part of the tender submission.

Regarding online bidding, this is still very unusual in my experience. There are potentially two types of on-line bidding. Firstly to simply submit your tender in the normal way, but electronically. Nothing too controversial here.

Secondly and very controversially is on line bidding where you get to see everybody else’s price and you then are given the chance to submit a lower price. The bidding continues until nobody else is prepared to submit a lower price, or it ends at a predetermined deadline. This method of on-line bidding is considered just about OK if it is goods (such as computers, toilet rolls, cups, etc) that are being bid for.

However if it is services that are being bid for, then this is a totally different matter for lowering the price invariably means lowering the quality of the services offered. This doesn’t help either the supplier or client of the services. On-line bidding for services should be discouraged in my opinion.

Gary
Norzul Ibrahim
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Further to this, based on our normal practice, we will only evaluate & open the commercial proposal that fully comply with the technical evaluation criteria...We will not open the non-compliance technical bid proposal

I was told that nowadays it is quite common to have online bidding...anyone got experience?
Charleston-Joseph...
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Hi Norzul,

That is the trend for sometimes.

The technical proposal and the commercial proposal will be submitted separately.

Regards,

Charlie