I am too embarressed to state that the dry dock slot os 1st March 08. NOT!

To the edge?

Clive,

I have been out slaying dragons in Dubya. Got Norske project to sanction, got punted (easy target as I was the commuter and a woman and WORSE lippy) then on the back of that the rest of the Planning Team resigned within 4 days. What a great send off present!
Still as one door closes 5 others open and I am now on site. Company paying for me living in 4 star accommodation so 3 month lease ties and pay and organise the flights. They also pick me up and drop me off. Bliss! Await the sailaway date next week then its Hull asssessment (currently en route from China me ole China), slap on Topsides modules, utilities, mooring, accomodation, gubbings etc.
Must rescusitate The Book and find out where Sweaty Betty is.
Some things change but not others!!!
Thanks for the laughs!!

Gwen my dear how are you
Where have you been??

Now Charlie, it is not suprising that when you were in oil and gas people starred at you

I understand that in O&G they do not tolerate fools as they have a habit of getting everybody into the stuff that hits the fan.

Having said that my own take on this is that planning is about the ability to think. For example is it neccessary to really know the difference between wft and dft or for that matter what a micron is. I would suggest not, but it is important to know what type of paint you are using the preparation method (possibly swedish) and the drying times considering ambient conditions together with humidity issues. Now you will probably be able to find a hairy person with a spray gun who will know all this and will probably be very willing to tell you if you have a bit of humility. If you steam in their with a level of arrogance you could well find you laptop pushed up your reverse lap.

Many years ago when computers were but a twinkle in most engineers eyes I worked on a road project. As I travelled through the cutting I saw the drainage profiles waving around in the wind. A small Irishman leapt out in front of me and said that the engineer responsible for this setting out should be nailed by his baby maker to a tree. The graduate who he reffered to had blindly followed the computer printout and had all the drainage falling in level to the middle of the cutting. Even presented with the basic principles of hydraulics he refused to accept he was wrong, and I had serious concerns regarding his future ability to raise a family. It turned out that a clerk had inserted a minus in the calcs rather than a plus. Common sense however should never have allowed the graduate to make the error that so threatened his future family.

It has troubled me for some time how we should interact with the team. If we dictate we will go unheard, however if say nothing because everybody is too busy we fail once again. For me it is important to set the strategy and then consult, substatiate and change. If you can achieve initial consensus then the next step is to build on that consensus. To barrel in to the PMs office, whipping out your degree and reading the sermon according to PMBOK or P3 will not win you freinds and that to me, that winning of freinds is important. It dosent really matter if the programme is 100% right as long as the team have bought into it. If it goes wrong they will assist and not just blame the planner.

However we must be the chameleon to the project manager, play to his weaknesses without identifying them to him, be his shoulder to cry on, but not just the pm all the tech team and site staff. Then our programme becomes their programme and has a real life, that takes humility on our part but also understanding. For me, I have never found a man that was not willing to tell you about his job, getting him to stop, much harder.

YES CHARLIE EVEN THE LABOURERS KNOW SOMETHING, EVEN IF ITS THE ODDS ON THE 3.30 AT DONCASTER.

Charlie,

If your jelousy of native english speakers bothers you so

much, i can get you a job here on more money!


..... I could do with a new gardener, the back lawn is just

too large and the grass is very unruly.


I plays havoc with my croquet matches!

Mohamed,

No need to apologise, as far as I can tell, nobody had a problem with your post, it seems a perfectly reasonable summary of the benefits of having a proactive Planner.

Charlie,

You do realise that your tirade’s could come across as ... well, perhaps a little racist?..

Not having a go, just friendly advice

Cheers,

Gordon

Sorry guys, seem my reply was out of context, dint check previous comments but the topic inspired me :D

Cheers,

3Fs? 4Fs? You would mention that sort of thing on this project without running FAST!

Hi everyone,

The main role for Planners is to coordinate with everyone in the project (project team members & other stakeholders) to produce a project plan which all team will be committed to. (Plan buy in)

As the project is in progress, the planner will be the project bird’s eye, he will highlight the potential risks before it becomes delays, & for excusable delays he should be able to assist the project team in brining the project back to track or to justify extension of time.

In projects close out, the planner keeping the whole history of the project will be able to assist the project team in developping the lessons learned for the project, which will be the basis for planning new projects.


Regards,

Skan,

I will attempt to answer you question as best I can.
1) Planners produce a plan. with the help of their customers input and other planners. project managers develop a schedule for the specific projects the plan has created. For an example a Planner may develop a plan for a waste water treatment plant. project managers will develop a schedule for the pipe lines to be laid, a schedule for settling tanks to be constructed.

2) By they I think you are referring to planners. The answer is yes, They need to consult with the project managers to get an idea of timelines and specific tasks involveed so well founded plans can be created.

3) See question 2

4) This is tru more so for the project manager than the planner. The planner deals more directly with the customer and is trying to solve the customers problems.

5) planners generally develop plans with several things in mind. 1 what does the customer want. 2 what at the nature of the problems involved: logistical, computerized, engineering, geographical etc.

6) All good plans must be tested and assessed before impletation. and after 6 months they should be reassessed

I whole hearted agree with your statement about planners

Brad,
I agree Planning and engineering are two totaly different areas. I have known engineers who could not plan their way to the front door of a house to go for a walk. Likewise I have known planners who had a hard time designing a way to tie their shoes

Hi Brad,

I just read through your last three posts and while I can’t say I agree with everything you’ve written, I’ve got to admit you do know where to put the knife when it comes to cutting through the cr@p.

Chris Oggham

Brad, take a look at this ;-)

Acronym      Definition
XP      Experience (Microsoft Windows XP)
XP     Chi Rho (Christian youth organization)
XP     Christus (Latin: Christ, epigraphy)
XP     Cross Polarization
XP     Cross-Platform
XP     Crosspoint (FidoNet Point software)
XP     Expansion Pack
XP     Experian (credit reporting agency)
XP     Experience Points
XP     Experimental Prototype
XP     Explosion Proof
XP     Extended Platform
XP     Extended Play
XP     Extended Stored Procedure (Microsoft SQL Server)
XP     Extra Performance (AMD Athlon XP+)
XP     Extreme Performance (AMD Athlon processor)
XP     Extreme Programming
XP     Microsoft Windows XP (operating system)
XP     Plans and Programs (USAF)
XP     Symbol or monogram for Christ or Christianity (from X and P, the first two letters of the Greek word for Christ)
XP     Xanthogranulomatous Pyelonephritis
XP     Xeroderma Pigmentosum
XP     Xperience
XP     Xtreme Prejudice (gaming clan)

and btw if you want how to deal with IT plans whilst you don’t poses an engineering degree, kindly refer to the older posts in this thread (especially #9, 10).

Do the planner with 2 years of XP knows the job better than a foreman or supervisor who has been doing the same work for more than 10 years?.
If the foreman or supervisor has the guts to learn how to deal with planning software and attend some courses then he can do it better than the youngster engineer.

A foreman or supervisor can read the drawings, communicate better, and understand scope of work.
For me, I haven’t met with an office-stayed planner better than a site planner because simply site visits are not enough to learn from.

btw, I have a civil engineering degree.

Karim

Is it mandatory that every planner who has an engineering degree will produce good plans for granted?
And on the contrary a planner with no engineering degree will always fail the project and produce meaningless plans?

Not necessarily at all.

Even if the planner poses an engineering degree, he must learn from the site how the job is done and often he has to learn this from the site foremen or supervisors (in addition of course to the site engineers).
It may take some time for someone who doesn’t hold an engineering degree but I’m certain that it can be done.

Karim

Hi Chris,

You have absolutely correct on this, You seem have gained enough exposure/experience retrofitting "SUB’s" and thereby raising your profile. No doubts about that experience & you know the ins & out of the work flow.

Site exposure is really worth & i presume all planners have a desire of raising their level to a Project Coordinator or a Proj Manager to be more effective. This is where your engg background or your real experience of construction helps.
As a Construction Manager, it may not matter whether u have a degree or not as long as u have requisite experience, but being a Project Manager/Coordinator does require knowledge of design.
As long as one is happy with planning & only planning, non engg background "may or may not" matter, but definetly for a higher level of job function, it does matter.

Cheers
datta

Hi Datta,

You are absolutely correct, my work now is predominantly in IT, but it wasn’t always like that, my first planning job was a refit for a submarine. Despite the fact that I didn’t have an engineering degree, the refit finished on time and the vessel was back on station when it should have been.

Ideally, what you want is someone with an appropriate qualification who can do the work. If it comes down to a choice, though, between someone with the qualification and someone who can do the work, which are you going to choose?

Chris Oggham

Hi Guys,

As we can see from his last post Charlie has let his usual ignorance and bigotry blind him to the facts.

According to Charlie in order to be a planner you have to have an engineering degree, what rubbish! I don’t have an engineering degree, yet I have been planning successfully for more years than I care to remember.

Again according to Charlie, America is the number 1 country because they take project management seriously by staffing it with engineers. Charlie, you take project management seriously by staffing it with people who can do the work to time, cost and quality, just as you’d expect from a contractor engaged to carry out work for you. So it doesn’t matter whether they have formal qualifications or not.

Charlie then goes on to say that in the UK, Commonwealth or British influenced countries this is not the case and because of this projects are delayed. Has Charlie ever worked in any of the countries he has vilified? No! So there we have it gentlemen, proof from Charlie himself that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Chris Oggham

When I accept a new planning engineer to my team, I tend to look for someone with a engineering background, or scientific, as these are essentially problem based discipines, the same as Project Planning. I’m not too picky though.

If they have a sharp mind, and know how to handle "people", the rest falls into place surprinsingly quickly.

Charles,
Normally Planners are qualified engineers i.e they do have the "engineering bent of mind" to understand the entire project.
My view is "before discussing/interacting with any discipline specialist, one should have basic knowledge of the Job/Scope/Work Processes & a bit of technical?.
There is a remarkable difference between "Information" & "Knowledge" which a planner should understand. If a planner sticks to "Information", he will always fall behind, if he seeks knowledge then over a period of time there is no reason why a planner shouldn’t effectively interact with specialists.
Get involed in Project issues both technical & commercial & always be inquisitive for every unknown issue.
Cheers