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Provision of Software

16 replies [Last post]
Sun, 2009-06-07 03:54
Edniel Recamadas
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Dear All,

We have submitted a baseline schedule to the Consultant as required. But the Consultant wrote us a letter stating that they cannot review the schedule until we have provided them the required primavera software. Procurement of the software is in-progress.

Is there any standard clause in the Contract, FIDIC or project specifications that review will not be conducted unless the required software is provided by the Contractor?

Please assist us on this.

Hope I’m on the correct forum category.

Best from us.
Edniel
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Replies

Tue, 2009-06-16 00:10
#1
A D
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Thanks Rommel for the updates.

Thats one of the advantages of being part of PP community. Its a learning opportunity everyday.

Cheers,
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Mon, 2009-06-15 22:24
#2
R. Catalan
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Hi Ravi,

Also, in your Post # 13 says:

"Only FIDIC 1987 edition has used the word consent, otherwise further editions have removed this particular word".

The word consent was also used in FIDIC Reprints with amendments in 1988 and 1992, and in November 1996 Supplement to the Red Book.

Best regards,
Rommel


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Mon, 2009-06-15 15:44
#3
R. Catalan
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Hi Ravi,

My Post # 8:
I mean FIDIC March 1977-Third Edition of the Red Book.

Your Post # 7:
"None of the FIDIC versions uses the word APPROVAL. It is to be submitted only for CONSENT and NOT approval. Consultant can only check the errors in the program but cannot dictate the work statement or resource allocation".

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. In the third (above) and preceding editions (August 1957-First Edition, July 1969-Second Edition, 1973-Reprint of the Second Edition), the programme was required to be submitted to the Engineer for his APPROVAL.

It was on the Fourth Edition that the programme was required to be submitted to the Engineer for his CONSENT. The Engineer should not give consent to a programme which is unrealistically optimistic (FIDIC).

Best regards,
Rommel
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Mon, 2009-06-15 15:41
#4
Samer Zawaydeh
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Dear Ravi and Rommel,

You are both correct. Thank you for the reminder.

Clause 8.3 of FIDIC 1999 goes as follows:

"Unless the Engineer, within 21 days after receiving a programme, gives notice to the Contractor stating the extent to which it does not comply with the Contract, the Contractor shall proceed in accordance with the programme, subject to his other obligations under the Contract. The Employer’s Personnel shall be entitled to rely upon the programme when planning their activities."

Thank you again for your remarks. It is most appreciated.

With kind regards,

Samer
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Mon, 2009-06-15 07:45
#5
A D
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Hi Rommel,

Only FIDIC 1987 edition has used the word consent, otherwise further editions have removed this particular word.

FIDIC 1987 Clause 14.1 states

"The Contractor shall, within the time stated in Part II of these Conditions after the date of the Letter of Acceptance, submit to the Engineer for his CONSENT a programme, in such form and detail as the Engineer shall reasonably prescribe, for the execution of the Works. "

Cheers,

Ravi
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Mon, 2009-06-15 07:41
#6
A D
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Hi Edniel,

Coming back to ur post, there is no such clause in FIDIC stating that consultant will not review program unless and untill contractor submits the software.

As samer has said, plz check ur particular conditions of contract. If software needs to be provided by the Contractor, then that activity should be part of the program and needs to be submitted on time, so that consultant can review ur program within stated time frame.

:-)
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Mon, 2009-06-15 07:14
#7
R. Catalan
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Samer,

Your Post # 6 states:
" The specifications on the other hand are related to the material that will be used in the project and is described in the BOQ. You will not find information about the Program of Works in this part of the contract documents. Unless the software is inclused as a BOQ item or a provisional sum item".

My view:
You will also find info/guide about the Program of Works in the specifications. The project Technical Specifications is normally divided in two parts when using the CSI coding system, (1) Division 1 - General Requirements, and (2) Division 2-16 Material Specications.

One of the section under Div 1-Gen. Requirements is about the "Time Schedule and Reports" wherein it includes the administrative and procedural requirements of the CPM of scheduling and reporting process of the Work.

Another section also under Div 1 is "Temporary Construction Facilities" wherein the requirements for computers, softwares, offices, etc. are stated.

But I must state that specifications writer has different views on how the subject is presented in the contract documents. Maybe it’s not part of what you have on your project.

Best regards,
Rommel
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Mon, 2009-06-15 07:05
#8
Rafael Davila
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Raviraj

Being from a USA territory I used the term approval,which is the way our contracts are spelled, I believe having a similar meaning as consent. The use of the word consent might be better as usually the Engineer/Architect includes some clarifications notes about his “approval” to mean "consent". In contracting the appropriate use of words is relevant. Your statements are correct.

It is good for everyone to know, as we all look what is going on at other places to learn from other perspectives.

Rafael
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Mon, 2009-06-15 07:05
#9
Rafael Davila
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Raviraj

Being from a USA territory I used the term approval,which is the way our contracts are spelled, I believe having a similar meaning as consent. The use of the word consent might be better as usually the Engineer/Architect includes some clarifications notes about the meaning of his “approval”. In contracting the appropriate use of words is relevant. Your statements are correct.

It is good for everyone to know, as we all look what is going on at other places to learn from other perspectives.

Rafael
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Mon, 2009-06-15 06:58
#10
R. Catalan
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Samer,

I agree with Ravi, this is one of the variations from 1987 issue.

Best regards,
Rommel
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Mon, 2009-06-15 06:27
#11
A D
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Hi Samer,

Referring to post # 4, last line; "Program .... to be approved"

None of the FIDIC versions uses the word APPROVAL. It is to be submitted only for CONSENT and NOT approval. Consultant can only check the errors in the program but cannot dictate the work statement or resource allocation.

Am I correct?

:-)
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Tue, 2009-06-09 06:27
#12
Samer Zawaydeh
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Dear Edniel and Rafael,

If the Design was completed by the Client and the Contractor is doing the Construction, then FIDIC red book, 1999 is used. A copy can be purchased directly from www.fidic.org for around $50.

The Conditions of Contact are usually divided into two parts. The General Part; this MUST be adopted as is from FIDIC and nothing to be changed. It is balanced to save the best interest of both parties of the construction contract depending on the previous experience of FIDIC.

The supplementary conditions; this is a project specific. The client/ consultant who prepares the contract documents will make sure that everthing that the project needs is mentioned in this part. Here you will find reference to the requirements of the Program of Works.

The specifications on the other hand are related to the material that will be used in the project and is described in the BOQ. You will not find information about the Program of Works in this part of the contract documents. Unless the software is inclused as a BOQ item or a provisional sum item.

Hope that you will find the information useful.

With kind regards,

Samer
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Mon, 2009-06-08 15:00
#13
Rafael Davila
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Edniel

Do a search for FIDIC in the following link to see what you can find until you get to see a copy of your specific contract.

http://www.4shared.com/

At this side of the Atlantic we rarely use FIDIC, I have never used it, Samer will be of invaluable help.

Just remember specifications are not necessarily FIDIC documents per se but still an integral part of your Contract, here additional schedule requirements might be included, don’t want you to get any surprises.


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Mon, 2009-06-08 14:12
#14
Samer Zawaydeh
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Dear Edniel,

The answer is within you post #1.

1. "Required" software is in the process of procurement. So, as per Contract you must purchase a software.

2. FIDIC requires that the Program is submitted within 28 days from commencement date. It does not state that the Program of Works should be submitted as soft copy.

Unless your conditions of contract state clearly that the Program of Works will not be reviewed unless the software copy is received by the Consultant, then the Consultant has 21 days to provide you with his comments. Otherwise, the Program is considered approved.

With kind regards,

Samer
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Sun, 2009-06-07 19:52
#15
Rafael Davila
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It is not unusual in some specs to require submission of the preliminary schedule and further submission in due time, otherwise withholding of payments can be applied.

Unusual to me is that they are requiring extra software licenses, unless you are allowed to use your own software different from the software of choice and elects to do so.

Unfortunately at times, because of the inclusion of unfair clauses, scheduling, a tool supposed to be used and owned by the Contractor is no longer his tool, but a tool by the Owner, for the Owner and to be used Against the Contractor. Usually when this happens, private industry takes omission on those abusive clauses and assumes a practical approach, but Government Agencies do not.

By the way, is your job a Private or a Government Job?
Can you be specific on the Primavera Software, P3 or P6?
Just for my knowledge and understanding of what going on elsewhere.

If not under the FIDIC Contract or Conditions of Contract it should be under other contract documents, usually the specifications. If you don’t have a copy of the specs you might be late. Get up and running the Owner makes the rules, that is how should be, as long as it is fair.

Rafael

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Sun, 2009-06-07 04:12
#16
Mohamed AL Sherbiny
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Dear Edniel,

normally the mobilizaton period is 30 days starting at the commencement day.

and
submitting the baseine program is within 2 weeks.

normally there is no relation between them.

so if you submit your baeline program in the first day
and then
completed your all office equipments, furniture, and software provision in the day 30
then
receive your submittals response after 15 days, (as specifications)

That means that you cannot make any progress in project activities till day 45.

thats nonsense.

the engineer should act as a helping hand than trying to search for drawbacks.

The engineer can review the baseline program using any computer at his head office, or in another project of his.

or
try to take him to our head office to use the required software.

I wish that helping

Mohamed
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